E{emum} | Why We’re Not Worried About the Future of Trucking

Not a fan of $7 a gallon diesel.

I'm not a fan of the highest diesel prices we've ever seen ever in America's history.

Like, it's.

It's actually insane.

I'm not a fan of spending $1,600 to fill up one semi truck one time.

No, I don't like that.

All right.

Nobody does.

Even though diesel prices are as high as they are.

Right.

You look at the rate sheets.

The rate sheets are the highest.

They've been.

You look online, everyone's hiring.

Why is it hard to get a job?

Is that school setting you up for success?

To get into this, that's a question you've got to ask.

Is now a bad time to get into trucking?

I would say you're better off being a company driver.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

In this episode, we have another Q and A session lined up.

I've got some things prepared.

There's some things that I've pulled from different sources.

I've given it a little bit of.

I've reworked some things just to help it make sense so we can actually kind of step in and answer it from our perspective.

Which, before we get into anything, I just want to state it up front.

This is just coming from our own experience.

It's coming from our sort of region.

So anything outside of that, if you've got a differing opinion, that is yours to keep.

Well, and I think we gotta do a big thanks to our sponsors.

Oh, wait, we don't have any yet, Right?

Yeah, yeah, it's us.

Yeah.

A little plug for people out there that are interested.

You know, we're here, we're ready.

We're able and willing already to accept.

Yeah.

Reach out.

So I've got a couple questions I'm gonna send your way, but just to kind of get us started.

Number one, I don't know these questions.

All right?

I don't know.

I have no preparation for these questions.

RJ just hits me.

But I think that's the most genuine.

Right.

You know that if I sent them.

To you, you wouldn't read them.

No, no, that's true.

That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well.

And do you want a canned answer?

You know what I mean, where I'm bringing a script and, like, okay, you know, like, these are the questions and I know exactly what I'm going to say and what's going to sound good.

Exactly.

Nobody's going to like that.

No.

Right off the cuff.

No.

For anyone who's met.

Met you.

What you.

The.

The answer you're getting is it's going to be the answer that you had.

It's not something you had in your back pocket.

So we want to keep things honest and as with, you know, anything.

Yeah.

This is.

A lot of this comes down to opinion and personal experience.

So that's the caveat.

Absolutely.

So getting into it, diesel prices have been setting records and not in the.

The good way.

Not the good way.

No.

Fun way.

No.

So there are some people out there that asked some variation of the question.

Is now a bad time to get into trucking?

That's a great.

That's a great question.

Because right now there is kind of a black cloud on not just the truck driving school industry, but also the trucking industry.

And you look at the high diesel prices and you talk to some companies that are really struggling because of diesel prices.

But I will tell you, I was just at a conference in Dallas, Texas, and I met with a lot of big companies.

We work with a lot of big companies at the school.

And right now is actually an amazing time to get into trucking.

And for the simple fact that all these companies have massive amounts of openings.

They have.

They've.

Over the last few years, they've had massive amounts of pay increases for their drivers, including different benefits packages and different things.

And I will tell you, our students coming out of the.

Out of the school, it's not a matter of if you can get a job.

It's kind of a matter of where do you want to work, what do you want to do?

Do you want to be otr?

Do you want to be regional?

Do you want to be local?

You know, that's kind of the beautiful thing about the trucking industry.

There's 200 different divisions of the trucking industry, and a lot of students will ask me, well, where should I go?

What should I do?

I was like, well, that really depends.

I mean, I know a guy that went to Schneider on a Dollar General run, and that's a lot of hard work because you unload at every single Dollar General.

Well, he loved it because he gets to literally get his workout in.

Right.

And get paid to work out and unload.

And he more or less sets his schedule.

He's home on a regular basis, and he loves it.

Now, to some people, they would hate that.

Right.

And so it is one of those things, you know, other people that maybe don't have a family or kids.

Well, the over the road option is a great option that can be out a couple weeks at a time.

If you've never seen the countryside, if you've never.

If you've maybe always wanted to go to the west coast, go, go through the Grand Canyon or go through the Rocky Mountains or see the amazing things that this country has to offer, you know, I encourage that route for people.

You get paid great money, you get to see the country and you get some great experience in the meantime.

Now, for people that have a wife and kids or they're married or whatnot, it might be a different story and maybe something more local or something more regional, maybe hauling propane or the local routes or maybe a road commission.

So there's, there's so many different options of the truck industry that you can get into.

What I encourage students is get that experience first.

You know, that's really important.

Get that experience under your belt.

Once you get that experience under your belt, then you can be a little bit picky, choosy.

But, but really, I don't have a, a cookie cutter answer to, well, where should I go?

What should I do?

Well, there's, there's so many different options right now, and there's so many different opportunities right now.

So even though, yeah, some negative news stories about the trucking industry and high diesel prices and stuff, but the fact of the matter is the industry is booming and people that are getting into the street, they're doing extremely well.

And even though diesel prices are as high as they are, right.

You look at the rate sheets, the rate sheets are the highest they've been.

So, so literally what people are making right now, arguably, you know, it far outweighs the diesel prices in a lot of sense.

And like, what a lot of people don't understand is all companies look at a fuel surcharge and some companies that gets adjusted daily, other companies, they adjusted weekly.

And so they take the rate and then whatever fuel is, and that fuel surcharge should cover 90 to 95% of the fuel.

So essentially it covers all the fuel.

So it really takes that element out of the equation when it comes to the trucking industry in a lot of respects.

Now, other sides of trucking, that is going to fuel significantly, the fuel increase is going to be like some of your owner operators or people that do a lot of brokered loads.

So a lot of brokered loads, they lump the fuel surcharge into the rate sheet.

Right.

And my advice to owner operators or people that do hotshot and different things is take that out.

Right now, it's about a dollar per mile for fuel surcharge.

Take that out of the rate sheet and see what the actual rate is.

And if that's not a good number, you got to go back.

And.

And that's one thing that's important too is, is when you're working with, whether it's C.H.

Robinson or you're on Internet Truck Stop or the DAP board and you're looking at these different load options.

Right.

It's one big negotiation.

That's what it is.

Right.

And right now, you look on there, there's significantly more loads that are on there than there are carriers that can haul.

So.

So the ball's in whose court right now?

It's in the carrier's court where.

Where they have the bargaining power to say, no, that's not the rate that I can do this load at.

This is the rate I need.

And if you don't give me the rate I need, well, I'm going to find a different load, a different broker that's willing to give me that rate.

And a lot of times they will.

They will come up significantly to meet you where you need to be for the simple fact that they have obligations to move that freight.

And right now, like I said, there's a ton more loads out there than there are carriers.

You can look at Internet Truck Stop, you can look at the dashboard, and you can see that right now that ball is in the carrier's court.

Yeah.

So before we move on, I want to understand, yeah, you can push back and negotiate, but I imagine there are factors that can kind of lean things one way or the other in that negotiation.

If you have little bargaining power of like, well, I just don't.

I want to be paid more for no additional guarantee on your part that I'll do a good job or that I will do my part in this part of the transaction.

I mean, what are companies looking for if there's so much demand?

Why there has to be a reason for it.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

So is your question, why is there so many loads right now and not so many carriers?

You know, so that's.

I think there's a few aspects of that.

So that is part of it.

Okay, so that is kind of a complex question, but I think I can simplify.

The answer to that is right now, you look at the driver problem pool.

Right, the driver pool.

And if you look at the amount of drivers that have been taken out of the driver pool in the last 12 to 18 months since the big, the big enforcement of the trucking industry in general has gone into place.

We're talking massive things.

And so there's, there's several different parts of that.

One of them is going to be elp.

That's going to be a big one.

I mean, that was over like 35,000 drivers.

Yeah.

That failed English language proficiency on the road.

And they put them out of service.

They put them out of service until they can read.

Right.

And speak the English language enough to read signs and stuff.

So that was a ton of people, ton of people across the United States and, and those guys and gals, they're not getting their CDLs back until they take courses in English and can read the signs in English and different things.

So that was a, that was a big part of it.

The other part of it is the drug and alcohol clearinghouse.

Drug clearinghouse has over 200,000 drivers right now in prohibited status.

And what that means is you've tested positive for drugs.

And mind you, the drug now clearance has only been around for a few years, right?

So this was a new thing before that if you tested positive for whatever, you would get fired on a Friday.

Right.

And you'd start working another trucking company on a Monday.

And that's what happened.

And so drug analysis clearinghouse came out and they said, no, this job happened, you know, because of positive drug testing.

You saw it all the time.

I mean, it was, it was, it was running rampant in this industry.

They said, we gotta, we, we gotta have a federal database that has everybody in the drug mail clearinghouse, all right?

And you have to be in not prohibited status.

You cannot work if you are in prohibited status.

That means you've tested positive for something and you haven't gone through the rtd, the return to duty process, Meeting with a SAP going through essentially a drug abuse counselor and going through that process.

So that's over 200,000 drivers that are in probus status now.

Those drivers are not working right now.

They are legally not able to work.

They can't work.

And if you're on there for more than.

It's like 90 days, right?

SDLA, state driver's license agencies will downgrade your CDL where you'll lose your CDL completely.

So if you're not going through, you'll lose your cdl.

So you can't even work illegally, you know, in produce as now.

You don't, you don't have a valid cdl.

So, so there's that aspect that.

That is really taken.

Like I said, it's taken over 200,000 drivers out of the driver pool.

Well, this is massive numbers across the United States.

So we have elp, we have Journal Clearinghouse.

And the other caveat here is DOT physicals.

So DOT physicals, for a long time, there was a lot of kind of gray area and so where it was very subjective, based on the doctor on.

On whether or not you would get that DOT physical.

Well, now there's much higher strict standards.

If you have.

If your neck is over, like, 18 inches, they're gonna send you in for a sleep study.

You ain't getting a DOT physical until you get that sleep study done.

And you say, say you do have, like, sleep apnea, get on a sleep apnea machine.

I mean, there's a lot of tests now that they do that are a lot stricter.

And so there's a lot of guys that have CDLs, but they don't have CDLs because they don't have a medical card.

And if you don't have a medical card, you don't have a cdl.

And so I don't know exactly how many people is.

But I know personally a lot of guys that got to a certain age where they just.

They had to let their CDL go because they couldn't get a DOT medical card, a DOT physical.

So you have that.

That's kind of going on as well.

So.

And there's other things on top of that, so.

Sure.

You know, and then, of course, the truck driving school side of things.

Right.

When you take out hundreds of truck driving schools, thousands of truck driving schools across the country that were doing things illegally, well, now you're not getting those new drivers into it.

So, okay, we're taking a lot of drivers off the road.

We're not putting near as many drivers on the road.

And so it's just creating this massive amount of driver shortage and this huge amount of loads and not nearly as many carriers or a better way to put that.

And there's many drivers on the road to be able to haul those loads.

Yeah.

So there's a.

There's a lot of factors at play.

And in the meantime.

So, I mean, someone is kind of piggybacking on this whole situation.

But someone asked, like, I see every truck has hiring on it.

Yes, exactly.

Actively hiring.

Everyone's pushing it.

You look online, everyone's hiring.

It's like, well, why is it hard to get a job?

And that may or may.

That could be a different Experience for some, some you might get in right away.

Others you might get bounced around.

So this is again, speaking somewhat generally, but for someone who is getting that situation, they hear like, all right, there's a smaller driver pool, there's increased demand, freight's only increasing in, in need.

Why can't I, why is no one calling me back?

Or I can't I get in somewhere?

So there's, you know, you're going to find that in some truck.

So there's going to be some trucking companies out there that have very strict policy that they want one year verifiable experience.

And this, you know, some of your better companies, like you're not getting into Walmart, right, without at least one year verifiable experience and a good safe driving record.

That's that, that's, there's one element where you do have a select number of carriers that have that, but there's also a ton of carriers.

And I'm thinking Warner, Swift, Stevens Transport, Schneider, all those guys, they are actively hiring and they hire out of the school all the time.

And very rarely do they deny people coming in.

Now the reason why, maybe some of those individuals might not want to go with those companies because those are over the road.

And so that's where something I like to say is, you know what, coming out of school, you know, some guys want, well, I want to, I want, you know, $30 an hour and I want full benefits.

It's like coming out of school, you're not going to, you're not going to get that.

You need to, you need to, you need to get your experience under your belt, right?

You're, you're a greenhorn.

Guess what, you got to, you're down here, right?

You got to work your way up.

And even that six months, that one year of verifiable experience, that'll set you up for the rest to be successful.

So I think that's, that's an important part of it.

And the other thing that's an important part of it is if you have, if you have a bad driving record, right?

At the end of the insurance companies, more and more are kind of deciding who cares, can, cannot hire.

And I've seen that before where guys will apply.

HR manager says, yep, yep, we're going to hire you.

And they send over the driver's license and the name over to the insurance company.

Insurance company says, I know, too many tickets on their record.

Or they had, they had a DUI five years ago.

It's like, so, so, yeah, you know, at the End of the day, you make your bed, you're going to have to sleep in it.

And so if you got a bad driving record or DUIs on your license, there's no doubt it's going to be harder for you to find that ideal job, right?

You'll still be able to find a job, but maybe it's not going to be the exact one that you want.

And to combat that, once again, go back to get that six months year of experience, right?

And then what happened previously will kind of be more, you know, more flexible as far as being able to have that moving forward.

Because now you have that verifiable experience under your belt, which is imperative to, towards your future success.

So, you know, it's one of those things.

I mean, the school does on average 24 students every class.

And you can ask the girls in the office that.

Very rarely do we get a call, I can't find a job.

And if they do, it's because they can't find the job that they want, right?

Not because there's not jobs available, because they're just maybe being a little too picky, choosy without that verifiable experience.

At the end of the day, you're a greenhorn and that experience is imperative for your future success.

So if you've had incidents in the past that increase the potential risk for an employer having a DUI in the past, even if it's five, 10 years ago, hey, I was in my 20s, my 30s, a lot of time has passed.

I haven't had any repeat incidents, you know, had a felony or.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

I've had an accident or something where an employer with no other information to go off is like, that's riskier.

But so it seems to be the pattern of once you get in, go with a company that has some looser hiring requirements, get the experience, get a year or two down, and then if you can show that you've got a safe driving record, you're doing your job, then odds are people are not like the past incidents lose some of their power, it seems like.

Absolutely.

And I think the other aspect of that too is I just talked to a recruiter from Schneider and she had told me she just put three schools in Wisconsin on the do not hire list.

Right?

Three schools, three truck driving schools in Wisconsin, the do not hire list.

And I said, why?

Like that's crazy.

And she said, because they, they're terrible and they, and they put out a terrible product.

And I said, well, and she comes into Midwest, every single class recruits she said, I love what you guys put out.

You put out good, safe, dependable drivers that have built a solid foundation in school.

So part of that as well for people is literally it could be a matter of you picked the wrong school, you went to the wrong place, you went to the wrong training, training facility.

And so, and that's where doing research on the school and calling them and seeing, okay, where do your graduates go and are you a school that's on the Schneider do not hire list?

If it were me, I wouldn't want to go to that school.

You know, I would want to go to a school that has those recruiters that come in and has those connections.

So that's important as well because you get to a hiring manager and say, oh, you went to, you know, ABC truck driving school and they don't have a good reputation.

Well, all of a sudden that negative reputation from the school, that clouds over your head now too.

Right.

And that's important.

So those connections that that school has built, that in itself.

And so maybe, maybe I'm, you know, have these rose colored glasses on because I don't see that issue at Midwest.

I really don't.

These guys get jobs.

They do, they do a great job.

Carriers that they go to, they love working with the school.

So maybe, you know, other schools have that issue because they've built a bad reputation.

But if you, if that school has a great reputation, you're going to have no problem getting into these, these, all these different carriers and all these different opportunities.

Yeah.

So it's sort of the, in lieu of building your own experience, where you receive your training is sort of the proxy of experience in the meantime, in the short term of, you know, can someone reasonably believe that you're going to be able to step into what they need you to be able to do without taking on undue risk.

Yes.

So a question that was going to come up actually was like you look around, you see schools closing everywhere.

How do you know if a school is legit?

Nobody wants to intentionally choose a school where they walk in or there isn't even a truck to train in, or they walk in and they're like the school bus is the classroom.

And you're like, whoa, you know, they.

Yeah, no, I think that's a great question.

And I think like a lot of things in life, you really have to be your own self advocate when it comes to that and do your own research.

And I think the first place I would go is the easiest place, go to Google Reviews.

Right.

I mean, I mean you Know, if other people have seen bad experiences at the school, they're gonna voice their opinion.

It's on there.

And if they don't have any Google reviews at all, that's probably a negative too, right?

Because companies will do that and change their name so that we have a fresh, a fresh Google sheet.

Right?

So check out those Google reviews and see what other students have to say if, if those Google reviews aren't high fours, 4.8, 4.9, 5.0, or if they're in their threes or low fours.

Right?

You got to think about those things.

Use other, you know, you can learn vicariously through other people on their experience, all right?

And kind of have a reasonable expectation of what your experience is going to be going to that program.

So that would be, that would be number one.

Number two is visit that school like you said.

If you show up there and there's no trucks there and you can't meet one of the instructors and you know, when a place is professional or not, I mean, at the end of the day, you got to be your own self advocate.

And I know at Midwest, and I can't speak for all schools, but at Midwest, I mean, there's, there's openings every single day where you can just show up, take a tour through the school, meet myself or one of the other certified instructors, check things out, take a ride in a truck.

You, you can see what the operation is all about.

Yeah, right.

And have a good idea.

So I think that's important.

You know, the other thing is, is call them and ask them what recruiters do you have, right.

If you have no idea what you want to do after school, you just know that there's great jobs with getting a cdl, right?

Then you better have those recruiters that come into the school and that are hiring out of the school.

If they tell you, oh, no, we don't have any recruiters that come in.

Well, yeah, that's kind of a red flag, right?

That's important.

So, so with that process and there's several other things and questions that I would ask.

But, but at the end of the day, you have to be your own self advocate, right?

And do a little research.

And I, you know, I saw a quote the other day.

What was it?

Better a little caution than a great regret, right?

And so just have a little caution, right?

Pick up the phone, make a phone call, look at the Google reviews, take a stop into the school, meet some people, right.

If you take one hour worth of research, right?

Especially when you're talking about, I Mean, these are, these are not low price tag programs, right?

We're looking at five, six, seven grand.

When you look at spending that kind of money, all right?

Make sure you're going to a good program that aligns with your career goals.

At the end of the day, that's the goal is to get into this career.

Is that school setting you up for success to get into this career?

That's a question you gotta ask and that is part of that self advocacy to make sure you're making the right decision.

So something to.

On the investment side of things, an area that I think people can tend to look at the price of something, like, well, they'll shop around and try and find something cheaper.

Which is like, I mean, find something competitive.

And if you can, if you find something that is less and you're getting the same thing, then people tend to assume that's a good bargain.

And it can be.

But where I like to kind of push people is if you're looking at something that is going to be the foundation that sets up your career.

So like you are expecting to get the return on whatever that investment is to getting a job and not even to make a comparison to college, I think those numbers stack up less and less.

But whatever it is, call it, if you were investing $10,000 into a really well renowned CDL school and you know that you have a very high likelihood of getting hired, the market is there, the demand is there, there's recruiters coming in, great reputation, all of that.

And then you see something that is $5,000 or $3,000, you know, like, well, why wouldn't I do that?

Like, you know, I, I'm, I don't have the job yet, I don't have spare cash.

You know, why wouldn't I go with the cheaper thing?

And you got to make your own decision.

But if someone is offering something at a significantly lower price, it's usually because the materials or the like, they, their costs are low enough that they can presumably make it work somehow.

Yes.

And they're like, okay, great, what's wrong with that?

Well, if you're not paying instructors a respectable living wage for their expertise, then your instructors probably aren't very good.

Yes, absolutely.

Or there's something kind of shady going on, or their materials aren't good.

All this stuff costs money.

If you are spending $1,600 a week to fill up a truck and you're only paying a school $3,000, how much driving do you think you're gonna do?

Absolutely.

I doubt you're Gonna touch it.

You know, I don't go to Walmart to get my boots, right.

You know, I go to Mel's, right, where they have Thorogoods and they have nice red wings, they have Ariats, they have high quality boots.

Why?

Because that's important to me.

Right, Right.

And so at the end of the day you get what you pay for, right?

You want a subpar, don't complain on a subpar education.

If you're going to a subpar school that's significantly cheaper and that might be a good fit for you if that's all you're worried about is the price because Midwest is more expensive than some schools and some guys.

Well, why are you guys so much.

So, you know, why are you guys more expensive?

Well, well, we're safer or more reliable.

You know, we teach you to have a career in this industry.

You're not just getting your cdl.

We're building that foundation so that you can be successful as an entry level professional driver.

We have recruiters that come in that specifically work with this school to get you hired right out of the program.

To me it's like it's, it's a no brainer in a lot of respects.

But, but if you're shop around just looking for the cheapest price, good luck, right?

And, and I really hope the best for you, but just know what you're getting into at the end of the day.

You get what you get what you pay for, right?

And if you're looking for a bargain, you might get bargain results, right?

And that's scary.

And like me, I want a good pair of boots, right?

That, that I'm on my feet all day, I'm moving all around.

I reach my 10,000 steps by about noon every day.

And I don't want my feet to hurt, right?

I don't want to have to replace them in three months.

I want a comfortable pair of boots, safety toe that I can use and move around in.

Well, guess what?

I'm going to go to a better quality boot manufacturer.

All right?

That's going to be significant.

They're, they're $250 boots.

$350 Boots, depending what you got.

But, but guess what?

I want that better quality because I know it makes a difference to me.

It's what I value.

So depending on what you value, well, it's going to depend on the price that you're willing to pay.

But when you look at say a top dollar of $10,000 to get in this industry, that's a pretty cheap Price tag to get into a career, a career that has so much mobility.

Right.

You can, you can do so many different things.

I mean, at the end of the day, I started all right in this industry, right, by getting my CDL at Midwest many, many, many years ago.

I drove, I worked in safety departments, I worked in maintenance.

I was a full time instructor, now the school director.

So like, just look at that mobility in itself.

And it's like, I'm a testament to what you can do.

But just getting, getting that entry level professional driver training was imperative for my entire future success.

And so you want to get in a career, guess what?

10, 10 Grand is a pretty cheap price tag to be able to get this industry and then do some amazing, amazing things and literally getting out of school.

I've talked to a lot of guys that literally paid off their tuition within months, three, four, five, six months of going to school.

What other program can say that?

I mean, what's a.

It's literally six months of working to pay off my, my student debt.

That's pretty good.

There's not many programs that can say that.

Yeah, 100% in the grand scheme of education, even coming from a, you know, I did a lot of like entrepreneur education.

Oh yeah.

In my past.

And you go to, you hire like a coach for a weekend, spend $10,000.

Well, yeah.

And then they're like, good luck.

Literally a coach.

I remember talking to Kent about that and he, he went to this, you know, full immersion, intense entrepreneurial training.

And yeah, it was like eight grand or something for a long weekend.

And I'm like, I'm like.

And yet people, people want to save a few grand, you know, to get into a career.

Like, yeah, I'm like, fine, go, go ahead.

I, I don't care.

You know, go home fired up by Wednesday.

You're like, what, what happened?

But yeah, no, it's.

Nothing's different.

Nothing's different.

No, exactly.

I just.

So don't be frivolous with your money.

Right.

Like invest in something that has a really, has a good fit, has a good return.

Like find a good school for you.

Absolutely.

And not to.

Just don't just choose the most expensive thing just because it's the most expensive either.

Look at what you're getting and then.

Look at what you're getting and be your own self advocate and make sure it aligns with your career goals and what you want to do.

Like I said, if you want to get the bare bones cdl, well, that might be what you need.

We'll see you Later.

But yeah, but for most people, most people, they want that professional driver training.

What is it going to take to build a solid foundation to set me up for success for years and decades to come in this industry?

And that's what our program is really based around.

Yeah.

Okay, so talking about just some other sort of general qualifications for this industry.

I'm 18, what can I actually do with a CDL?

18 Years old.

Absolutely.

So I mean my first thought goes to linemen.

I mean the majority of linemen that come through the program are 18, 19, 20 years old.

They're right out of high school and they look at the lineman industry and the line industry is booming right now.

There's massive amounts of infrastructure investments across the country.

Well, guess what?

You can't be a lineman without a cdl, right?

So you've got to have that cdl and in order to be, to be alignment on top of that, we get a lot of guys that are 18, 19, 20 that come through the school just to get their CDL because they're getting in the industry now.

Right now.

And what that question is probably referring to is intrastate 18, 19, 20, you're bound to intrastate just in the state in which you reside.

But what they don't tell you is, is say you got a job, you're in, you know, Minnesota, but now you got a job working in, in Wisconsin.

Right.

But you can transfer your license to Wisconsin and now you're intrastate in Wisconsin.

Right.

And so, and other, other guys, you know, 18, 20 year olds, they'll, they'll work for road commissions, they'll work for loggers, they'll work for dump truck operations, concrete operations, delivering concrete and cement and different things.

So you look at that and there's still a lot of opportunities, but you're bound to intrustate.

But at the same time that could change here coming up because they're reviewing the study right now.

I just heard from Derek Barge, it's on Derek Barges desk, he's looking at the study and if they conclude that 18, 19, 20 year olds are just as safe on the road in interstate commerce as, as interstate commerce, they're going to get rid of that altogether and open that up.

So just at 18, which realistically every single state you can get a CDL at 18, but you just can't leave the state.

Like is there something about the Menominee River?

Right, that just.

Right.

And, and I look at that and the fact of the matter is is street signs across the country are the same a Stop sign here means the same as in Florida, the same as in California, the same in Texas.

Guess what?

That stop sign is exactly the same.

Those are federal regulations that govern street signs and traffic lights.

A red light in California doesn't mean go.

Right.

Just like a green light in Michigan doesn't mean stop.

It's the same across the board.

What's the difference?

Right.

And so that very well could change for guys that are maybe concerned about that.

That variable can change very, very soon here.

That allows 18 to 20 year olds into interstate commerce.

But regardless, there's still a lot of great opportunities getting this industry.

But also that comes down to the school that you're working with to help you with those connections.

Right.

So we get a lot of guys and gals that come to the school that know what they want to do.

They already have jobs lined up, things they want to do, and boom, they're good.

We also get a bunch of people that just see all the different job openings in the industry and they know they got to get their CDL to be able to get their foot in the door to these places.

And so those are the students.

That essentially is why the recruiters come in, is for those individuals that just know they want to get into industry, but they don't know what they want to do.

Right.

And they, and they don't even know that there's over 200 different divisions in the trucking industry and or what, you know, Conestoga looks like versus Flatbed versus drop deck versus Lowboy versus Dry van versus Reefer versus Tanker.

I mean, you know what I mean?

So that's part of going to school is learning all these different things and maybe figuring out what you want to do and what you don't want to do.

That's all part of the process.

Yeah.

So if that does go through where the under 21 intrastate policy changes and we'll definitely have an update on that.

But just stay, if you're a younger listener, just stay tuned for that because that would dramatically open up the options because many may not have in the lineman case, usually they have sort of a utility they're trying to go to or they know kind of where they want to end up.

So they know the constraint is depending on where they may go for the apprenticeship or then they may need to transfer that residence, but they will be living there anyway.

So it's just paperwork.

They'll have to eventually.

And I think the other thing is the people that really maybe struggle with the under 21 interest rate is people in small states.

Right.

If you're on the east coast where you have a bunch of small states, it's like, that's one thing.

But we live in a big state.

Where to go from the tippy top north estate to the south estate, it's the better part of nine hours, ten hours, maybe longer.

I mean, it's a long way.

You're in Texas.

Right.

I mean, it takes you a long time to get across Texas.

Right.

You might never.

I mean, you live in California.

You got all those states out there.

Montana.

All right.

There is a ton of intrastate opportunities within that state.

It's the smaller states that I would, I would imagine that the younger people really struggling.

Because if you're in Rhode island or New Jersey, I mean that's.

You're struggling a little bit.

But here in the Midwest we have pretty big.

These are all big states and not an issue.

You really see we have the wonderful joy of needing to drive a long time to get somewhere.

Exactly, exactly.

We don't tell you by miles how many you have to go.

We judge distances in hours.

That's about an hour drive.

Yeah.

You know.

Yep, exactly.

Okay.

So another sort of qualifying aspect is something that people sometimes struggle with.

We have here in Michigan.

Weed is legal.

Yeah.

And no personal opinion against those who want to use it.

Good times.

But it is illegal federally.

Exactly.

So that can be a bit of a problem.

And you were talking earlier how even those who they give it up prior to coming to school knowing that there's going to be a drug test and then they still fail because the timing was off.

I mean, talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, that's really important.

When I originally got my CDL and took my very first drug test, better part of 20 years ago, it was not only very illegal, but you would go to jail.

Right.

And I mean, there's still a bunch of people in prison right now on marijuana related charges.

There's still a lot of states where it's very illegal.

Now we live in a state and there's a lot of states that it's legal.

Right.

For the state.

So you can legally do it, go down to the local dispensary and have your fun.

And, and, and that's not, that's not a bad thing.

I tell people enjoy it.

But if you want to get into this industry.

Right.

You just, you just can't do it.

Right.

You can't do it.

You can't smoke it.

And on top of that, THC stays in your system.

I've seen it Stay in people's system two, three months, right?

And so it's really important that if you want to be successful in this industry right now, you just can't touch this stuff.

You can't do this stuff.

And before you go to know that you're going to get drug tested at truck driving school, all right, Typically the first or second day of class.

So make sure you give yourself, you know, month, two months, get on down to Walmart, get one of those instant tests to make sure you're good.

Just make sure you're good, all right?

That's what's important.

And, you know, I get calls from students all the time, like, hey, I've been smoking for six years, you know, every day.

And I'm like, that's great.

You know what I mean?

I think that's fantastic.

But you're gonna need to.

You're gonna need to quit, right?

And you're gonna need to, you know, take some instant tests beforehand to make sure you're clean because you're getting drug tests on the first day of class.

Well, I want to start on Monday.

No, you're not gonna start on Monday.

All right?

You gotta give yourself at least.

At least a month, you know what I mean?

Or two months, minimum.

Exactly.

And I will tell you, the bigger you are, right?

It works.

It literally stays in your fat cells.

So if you're a bigger person, I'm sorry, but you might have to wait a few months because it stays in your fat cells.

So, you know, it's a big issue right now in the.

In the trucking industry, and they're looking at it.

And there's a big issue with Canada right now with it, because Canada did a mass legalization across the whole country.

Yeah.

United States didn't.

So now you have Canadian drivers that can legally do it.

All right.

But they can't come to the United States with it in their system.

Right.

They're not high, but it's in their system because.

And so there's a lot of.

There's a lot of issues with that going on.

Is it.

You know, so I guess the process that they have to go through, and they're looking at all this right now, but they have to d. Deschedule it down.

It's a.

It's a Schedule 1 drug right now, so it's got to be dropped down significantly.

Right.

And then they need to regulate it and then they will legalize it and then take it off.

Take it off.

The DOT's drug testing just like alcohol, right.

You don't get Tested for alcohol when you go to your five panel drug test.

But that's going to be a long process.

And are they going to end up doing it?

It sounds like it, but obviously until it actually happens, we don't exactly know.

So what I tell students at the end of the day, if you want to be successful in this industry, you can't do, you can't do weed, right?

Don't touch, don't touch the stuff.

That's, that's the requirements of where it's at.

And I guess, I guess it's easy for me to say because 20 years ago it was illegal in this state.

You didn't touch it.

The only way you were buying it was from the, the drug dealer down the street.

That was the only way to get it right.

And nowadays you have all these dispensaries, so it makes it a lot more accessible.

So I think, I think people's lived experience today, it's probably a lot harder for them because they literally have to say no, right.

Compared to back then where you had to seek it out.

And it was a lot harder back then.

Nowadays it's so accessible, it's tough for people.

Right.

And so the opinions aside, regardless of, you know, it's, you know, it's a stupid policy, it doesn't matter in this context because that's the laws right now.

It's the law.

And it is one of those factors that you come to school even if you, you somehow cheat that first test, right?

Like you're not now you're getting into territory of I don't know what in, you know, it could be company policies, you mean like you could be facing charges, you know, or having your, you know, stripped of your license.

Not only is that negative, but, you know, you're kind of setting yourself up for failure because this industry, you're going to be drug testing when you go to truck driving school, you're going to be drug tested again when you start on with the carriers, what we call a DOT pre employment drug test.

And then you get put in what's called the random bat, the random pool.

And how that FMCSA regulation works is every carrier on the planet needs to, needs to drug test 50% of their drivers in a given year randomly, right?

So you have a 50% chance of being drug tested throughout the course of that year.

And they pull them every quarter.

So.

So are you gonna get pulled eventually?

Statistically, absolutely, you will get pulled eventually.

It's gonna happen.

Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but definitely the year after you know, there was quarters here.

I got pulled three quarters in a row in one year.

I'm like, this is like a sick joke.

You know what I mean?

Apparently, I got too much energy, Right.

I do drink like five, six cups of coffee every day.

But it's one of those things that.

It is a constant part of this industry.

And so if you want to be successful in this industry, you just can't do this stuff.

And I've talked to students before.

I was like, you know, this kind of outline this, and they say, well, I don't.

I don't want to quit.

Well, you're probably not a good fit for this industry then.

Yeah.

Plain and simple.

And that's.

That's a choice you got to make, right?

It is what it is until they change the rules.

But these are the regulations today, and we got to follow them.

Yeah.

Okay, so I've got a couple more questions for you, and then we will, I think, well, we'll move it on and we'll do the rest in a part two, just to be respectful of everyone's time.

So we talked a little bit about how prices have just gone crazy.

Demand is.

Is on the rise.

So for someone stepping into this industry, with diesel being what it is, and kind of the climate we're in is if a company offered a lease purchase without any money down in today's world, is that a good deal or are you.

Oh, it's.

That is a loaded question, rj.

All right, because have I seen some good lease purchase options and yes, I have.

Have I seen some horrible lease purchase options where literally after a couple years, you're in the red and you've made nothing?

So, you know, I would say based.

Based on the pay and benefits that are in the trucking industry right now, right?

I would say you're better off being a company driver, right?

Because, you know, you look at, you look at.

You look at fuel per.

Per se, right?

Lease purchase.

Who's paying for fuel?

I assume you are.

You're paying for fuel, right?

That comes out of your.

Your weekly check.

And not to mention the other thing with a lease purchase is, okay, you got the payment on that truck, you have the fuel.

Weekly fuel.

Which trucks fill up typically every three days or so.

And right now it's about $1,600 to fill up a truck.

So you're looking at over three grand just to fill up your truck for the week.

On top of maintenance, right?

Maintenance is huge.

All of a sudden you have a turbo blow or a clutch that blows.

And one Thing that I think a lot of owner operators don't necessarily understand is they look at, yeah, they can make a lot, but at the same aspect, it's like they have one major breakdown.

One they're not making money with that truck and they have massive bills.

Right.

And so it's, it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough thing.

Now can you do it?

Absolutely.

I know a lot of guys that do it.

They're very successful.

But once again, better a little caution than a great regret.

And guys that want to do it right out of school.

Absolutely not.

All right.

Because absolutely not.

I see that too.

Well.

I would get buying a truck owner.

I was like, no, get your experience under your belt.

Figure out if this industry is a good fit for you for that, because you might think dry van is the best option.

Dry van has the most loads that are out there.

It's the cheapest freight, right?

Cheapest freight.

A lot of owner operators don't do dry van because it's the cheapest freight.

They don't make as much.

And so you got to think about that.

And so say you want to haul like lowboy, you're not going to do that with your typical dry van truck, right?

You're going to want to have a lift axle with it.

You're going to want to have a wet kit on it.

Maybe you need a 6nz or as opposed to just the pulling power.

So there's a lot of questions that you don't know the answers to that I necessarily don't know the answers to as far as it being a good fit for you.

So like I said, a loaded question.

Rj, I don't like that question because there's some good options with it, but there's some not so good options.

But regardless, out of school, no, give yourself a year to learn.

Not to mention, statistically speaking, if you're going to have an accident in the trucking industry, chances are it's going to happen in the first year.

Because that's when you're learning.

That's when you're figuring things out.

That's when there's a lot of.

There's a lot of big learning curve.

Right.

I even told students after they graduate the course, get their cdl and I tell them your learning has just begun.

Right.

And I mean that because it is a whole nother Boulder ride once you get on the road.

Um, so, you know, some other things with lease purchases is, is, you know, understand what.

Yeah.

Not that you have to have a business background.

But you gotta understand a little bit about business, right?

And are you getting paid by the mile?

Are you getting paid by the percentage?

Right.

So I've seen that before where lease purchase operators, right, they'll get, they'll have a lot of customer freight.

They'll get paid 80% of the load, which is great, right?

So perfect, 80, 85% of the load.

They cover the plates, insurance, everything else takes out of your, your weekly escrow.

But then you look at the freight that they're getting and guess what freight those companies are giving those owner operators the cheapest freight, right?

Because they're not making as they're not making as much money on it.

So they're going to give the really high dollar freight to their company guys because their company guys, they're making a lot more money off of owner operators.

I'm not making near as much.

We'll give you this freight, it looks good, right?

But understand what that rate, get that rate sheet and, and you should have a good idea of what you're getting paid as well as the fuel surcharge and everything else.

And if you're a, if you're a lease purchase doing brokered loads, you will fail 100%, you will fail, you will go under.

I've seen it, I've seen that numerous times.

Because brokered loads as opposed to customer freight are significantly cheaper.

And you're not going to get the amount of money that you need all right, to, to maybe not even cover your fuel.

All right.

Which is why this high fuel prices right now, they're affecting your owner operators the most, your lease purchase the most, companies with not as many trucks the most because they're not, they're not getting that high dollar fuel surcharge that your bigger carriers are demanding just to be able to cover their expenses.

Yeah.

So I know it was kind of.

A loaded, but it's a tough question.

But there are some good options out there though.

But I want to, I wanted to bring it up just as a kind of a thought experiment of if someone sees that question, the motives behind it.

Yeah.

Between you know, rates, you know, what they're paying drivers, the costs of just operating in general, like everything has gone up so their margin has been squeezed.

So when someone hands you what seems like a really appealing deal, especially if they could sweeten that pot and make it sound really, really good and then it's like, all right, understanding what that does for them because they're offloading those operating expenses onto you.

And then depending on what sort of loads you're getting, you have to make sure the economics work.

So anytime you talk about a business background, there's this sort of chart of when you start any new venture or new business or industry or whatever, your starting point.

And there's sort of this uptick in when you reach uninformed optimism.

You're like, I can drive a truck, no problem.

Fresh out of school, start my own business.

It'll be great.

I'll just woo all the best customers and secure some loads and it'll be perfect.

And then you realize it sucks, actually.

And there's this downtick of you learn more about it.

You get into informed pessimism where you start to realize there's a lot you didn't know.

And then you hit the sort of low point of the valley of despair, which is where most people quit the industry or in anything.

Yeah.

And they're like, I have uncovered the skeletons.

I found out where they were buried and why didn't anyone warn me about this?

And they bail.

Those that come out of it are now uninformed pessimism.

I believe it still stays kind of negative for a while.

And then you persevere and eventually you can kind of come up the top, you know, statistics playing out.

And then you can kind of reach this informed optimism success point where you now know enough, you know, what you didn't know before, and you can.

You've overcome that, but you gotta.

If you jump the gun.

Yeah.

And so some other things, you know, some questions I would ask.

Cause yes, there are some.

I guess I'm more pessimistic about it, to be honest.

But there are some good options, and I've seen some good options.

But the question you gotta ask yourself right now is, okay, at least purchase.

What's my interest rate?

So if it's a new truck, you're talking about $200,000 truck.

And right now, interest rates for commercial loans are pushing 7%.

So what's 7% of 200,000, RJ?

14 Bucks.

$14,000.

Right.

That's $14,000 a year just in interest.

Right.

So you're looking at a 12 principal, a $1,200 a month.

Right.

And they're going to want you to pay probably at least.

Right.

Another two grand on top of that to cover principal.

So you're going to have a $3,200 payment a month.

So you're going to make $3,200 just to cover the payment.

All right?

And now you have fuel on top of it.

Now you have maintenance on top of it.

I just talked to an owner operator the other day.

He was in, like, Tennessee, and he was going up one of the mountains in Tennessee and blew his radiator.

His radiator blew, right?

Smoke all over the place.

Dead on the side of the road.

Take a guess how much that tow bill was to take him to the shop.

The thousands.

$5,000.

Right.

And then he needed a new radiator, which is another, like, $6,000 on the road, right?

So for a new radiator.

And so now he's $11,000 into that.

Into that maintenance bill.

One maintenance bill, and he's like.

And guess what?

They wouldn't let him take the truck until that's paid, right?

You don't get no net 60 or net 90 on that.

And so he had to come up with $11,000 to get his truck to keep it moving.

Well, for an owner operator that has a small margin, small bottom line, that's a lot of money to come up with, right?

And so.

And that's just the maintenance side of things.

Well, now he still has to fuel it up, right?

Still has to put the miles in, and now he's got that monthly payment.

And so.

So look at the numbers, like, right, right now, if you.

If you get into a high interest rate, like so, on a $200,000 truck, which right now, that's what they are, brand new, right?

7% Interest, $14,000 a year that you're paying just in interest.

Yeah.

And that's where like.

Like understand a little bit about business and having a business background, right?

That's a lot different than a 3% interest rate paying six grand a year, you know what I mean?

So it's just important to ask those questions and know what you're getting into.

Once again, better a little caution than a great regret.

And.

And like I said, certainly don't ever do it right out of school.

All right?

That's an absolute biggest.

No, no, I can say don't ever do it right out of school.

Because the other thing is, that's a contract, right?

So you sign your name on that truck.

Well, now you're on the hook for that $200,000 truck, right?

And say the motor blows up, right?

And this is something I've seen.

That motor blows up.

And it could be under warranty.

It might not be under warranty.

Well, now you need a $50,000 motor.

Can't pay for the motor.

And now the truck is sitting.

Now you're on the hook for a $200,000 truck payment.

And it's a contract.

Right.

You're obligated to pay that, but you have no revenue coming in now, what right?

To me, with what they're paying right now in the trucking industry, being a company driver.

Right.

Takes all of your risk out of it.

Right.

With still a nice chunk of the reward.

Yeah.

That, to me, makes more sense.

Save yourself the heart attack.

Exactly.

And talk to.

Yeah.

Hold off on it.

Things, you know, different scenarios could be, you know, an entirely different answer.

Absolutely.

Talk to a couple owner operators and see what their.

How their stress levels are doing.

If I could end on a positive note, the handful of owner operators that I'm thinking about right now that are successful, they are in specialized divisions of trucking.

Right.

So they are in lowboy, they are in logging, they are in flatbed, they are in more specialized divisions.

All right.

One, you're getting a much higher rate per mile.

It requires a little more kind of mental acuity when you're hauling oversized loads and stuff like that.

But there's much more to the bottom line for.

For those types of loads.

If you're looking at being like, at least purchase for a drive in, there's not a lot of margins to drive in.

There's a lot of loads, not a lot of margins.

I would definitely caution against it.

Yeah.

And with that, we will wrap up this first part of the Q and a.

We will come back next week for part two.

We'll keep the questions rolling.