E{emum} | The Standard The Standard That Doesn’t Care Who You Are: Nyeannie’s Lineman School JourneyThat Doesn’t Care Who You Are: My Lineman School Journey

I remember watching the first couple guys do it, and I was like, there is no way in heck that I can do this.

I was like, it moves so much.

I mean, I was terrified.

Just because nobody wants to fall face forward because I might pass out or something.

I don't know.

Because I might expect that it's not going to catch me.

Even though it is, because you're wrapped around it.

I mean, I have my own struggles with things, keeping up with that standard of, okay, can I.

Can I meet all of these qualifications and standards?

Everyone here has something that makes them different and that should not be the reason to not do something.

I don't want that to be like an identifier for myself, and I just want to be known as one of the other guys.

It might be uncomfortable, it might scare you a little bit, but you can do it.

I mean, it's definitely scary, but you can do it.

You're capable.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Welcome to another episode of the Built in the Midwest podcast.

Today I have Nyani Reeves.

He's one of our students in the electrical line technician program.

I have a ton of questions I want to ask him.

But first, Nyani, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to be here, so.

Awesome.

That's a good place to start.

So you grew up in Farwell, Michigan, Right downstate.

So I actually.

I was born in Clare, Michigan, and then I grew up about 30 minutes outside of Bigger Rapids.

That's where Ferris State is.

Ferris State University.

And then I just recently bought a house out in Farwell, so.

Got it.

Okay.

So in that area, for the most part, yep.

Yeah.

So, I mean, give us a.

A little context of, you know, after high school, like, what did.

Where did your career kind of start?

And we'll kind of take it, you know, step by step.

Okay.

Yeah.

So after high school, I actually came up here and went to Northern Michigan University.

I did a semester up here.

Go, cats.

Yep.

Yep.

And then I decided to enlist in the military.

So the Christmas block, or like, Christmas block, leave for college.

I got ready to leave for basic.

I left January 2nd, actually, right out right after the new year, so.

And through basic and everything like that right after.

So what drove that?

You came up for college?

Then was it.

You just didn't really like the direction that was going.

Like where.

What was that decision?

So I had been planning to enlist into the military.

I was just kind of waiting, getting paperwork around, everything like that.

And then I also wanted to do college as well.

I originally wanted to become a nurse, actually.

I wanted to work in a hospital.

I did not plan on working outside.

That was not.

Not my thing at first.

And so I was going to go to basic, you know, do all that stuff.

And then I was going to come back and continue college and then I ended up finding my way here, so.

And back into the up.

So.

Funny how life works out.

Yeah.

So you were, you did the military for how long were you enlisted?

About three years.

Okay.

And that was in the Army?

Yep, that's correct.

Yeah, the Army Reserves.

So I was down at Fort Custer originally.

I started out in Saginaw, so.

Okay.

And what was the experience there?

Like did you kind of go into any sort of specialization or.

Yeah, so my job I was at 88 Hotel.

So I did like heavy equipment stuff kind of.

It's a cargo specialist is what the actual classification name is for it.

And so that's operating like their 5Ks and 10Ks, which are kind of like forklifts, pretty much big container handlers.

We learned how to operate like the ship cranes and stuff like that, and packaging down cargo and storage containers and things like.

Like that.

So I, I did a little bit of outside work.

I didn't go into anything medical or anything like that in the military, surprisingly, even though I wanted to be a nurse for the longest time, so.

But I ended up outside.

I mean, I liked my job.

It was okay.

I was in a transportation unit.

So we also had to learn how to like drive the trucks and everything as well.

I feel like I did more of like an 88 Mike's job, which is a truck driver, than like a hotel's job.

So they call us motels.

Pretty much a mic and a hotel at the same time.

There's a. I feel like that's almost foreshadowing of like the.

That specific blend of skills kind of.

It's.

Do you find the, the irony in that of.

A little bit, yeah.

Just to end up up here, you know, and operating heavy equipment and things like that, and then learning how to drive the trucks and getting my cdl and stuff like that.

Yeah.

It's kind of a little bit weird how that all worked out just cause I mean, I knew in my brain what I planned on doing and I don't know, I guess my heart told me I was doing something different.

So, yeah, I imagine more and more like, this does not look much like nursing.

Yeah, no, not at all.

I even worked in a hospital as a phlebotomist for quite a while.

And yeah, I don't know how I didn't end up in the nursing field, I guess, but so you.

You end up to college for nursing, military.

You end up specializing in equipment and cranes and driving trucks, and then you have a chapter as a phlebotomist.

That's not a job you can just walk in and get hired as.

Yeah, no, I had to do a training program.

That's actually how I met my fiance.

Her stepmom was one of my trainers.

And so, yeah, I did that.

Did a whole training program that was actually relatively soon after I came home from basic and AIT and I was still doing college for nursing.

I was going to mid.

I transferred downstate or whatnot, and I was doing a phlebotomy program and everything like that, and then still did not end up in.

In a hospital.

I don't know.

I guess I just wasn't really enjoying being inside in a hospital as much as I thought I would and I just prefer to be outside.

Okay.

Do you feel like that the doing that work in the military kind of planted that seed a little bit of like.

Actually, I do want to be.

I want to be outside.

Being a little bit more physical, being more.

Not that nursing is not a physical job.

I'm not.

Don't play me in the comments.

Like, I get it, it's a really hard, demanding, arduous job.

But working with the equipment and being outside, did that kind of open up, like, actually, this isn't so bad?

Yeah, I would definitely say that it definitely gave me some of an interest to be outside and work outside just because I knew what it was like.

But I also had that experience working in a hospital, and I also knew what that was like.

And I would say for me personally, I just didn't enjoy, like, going into the hospital when the sun was coming up and then coming out when the sun was already down.

I'd rather be outside all day, you know what I mean, and get to see the sunrise and get to see the sunset.

For me, that was just more appealing than just being stuck inside, you know, brick walls all day.

Yeah.

So what take me from you get out of the military.

I assume this is kind of the window where you were doing the phlebotom.

Phlebotomist job.

I mean, how do you go from that, then to deciding you want to go into the lineman field?

Yeah, so.

So I started doing phlebotomy when I got back from, like, basic training and everything.

And that was kind of.

I guess I'm trying to think of the point of time.

This was quite a while ago.

But, yeah, so I did phlebotomy.

I did that for a while.

And then when I decided that I didn't want to do college anymore just because I decided it wasn't for me, I also started to think, hey, I don't think nursing is for me after working in a hospital.

So I stopped doing college and I started looking into trades.

I was talking with my grandmother about it just because she's a very, you know, very big advocate for college, but also trade programs as well.

She's actually a college professor.

And so we started exploring some options, and she was like, well, you know, hey, there is this, you know, lineman trade.

She was like, I think you should look into it.

I think you would enjoy it.

It's pretty technical, but it's also physical.

You get to be outside.

And I was like, okay, so I go on YouTube, TikTok, you know, all the type of things us young people do, and just started researching.

I was like, okay, like, this is really cool, but how do I get here?

You know, how do I.

Well, I mean, how do I find a program for school?

You know, an apprenticeship?

Like, what is that?

Like, how long is that?

Where can I even do that?

So it definitely took a lot of planning, a little bit just to kind of figure out, okay, you know, how.

How do I meet this goal?

And obviously, it's a very lengthy process.

I mean, the apprenticeship, you know, three, four years, and not counting the time to even get into one, because they have specific application windows and things like that.

But, yeah, just kind of a lot of planning and really thinking about it and deciding, okay, so which trade do I want to go into, you know, and how do I get there?

Yeah.

Was there something that kind of sealed that decision for you where you.

You did decide that that was the direction you wanted to go?

I would say out of all the research that I did, this just seemed like one of the ones that I would be the most interested.

Interested in.

As I said, like, it's not only physical, but it's also very mental.

And I like that.

Mental stimulation.

And then also just seeing, I guess, like, the brotherhood within the lineman trade.

It seems like it's a huge brotherhood, you know, teamwork.

It's very similar to the military, you Know where you rely on your people to your left and to your right and rely on them for support and everything like that.

And seems like an environment that I would want to be a part of.

Yeah.

You'd mentioned at one point that you had a career counselor that was able to kind of help you as well, figuring out some of the details of the what, the how, the when, kind of, you know, helping line things up and make it happen.

What was that process like?

Yeah, so I had to go out.

Well, first I had to look for, like, programs within the VA to see, you know, can I get any help paying for this school?

Obviously it's not a financial aid program, which is fine.

And I was lucky enough to find the VR&E program through the VA. And so I went online, applied for that, waited like a month or two to hear back from anybody, did like an initial interview with them, like, okay, do you qualify for this?

What.

What kind of stuff are you interested in?

Is this gonna fit well for you?

You also have to do like, career aptitude testing, kind of just to see what careers kind of line up.

So, like, if, you know, all of my stuff was healthcare and there was nothing with electrical or heavy equipment or anything like that, you know, they're gonna be like, well, are you sure this is what you wanna do?

Funny enough, I did have some healthcare stuff in there, but I did also have like, electrician, some lineman stuff, things like that.

So it was kind of a good, healthy mix of things.

So submitted that all back to her.

And then we started discussing, okay, you know, programs, where are programs?

So there's lcc, there's you guys, there's Alpena.

Northern has one too, but those ones are longer, usually through the community college.

They're about a year to two years.

It just depends.

And personally, I wanted to get into the workforce quicker.

And that's also what the VRNE program is all about, is getting.

Getting people into the workforce as fast as possible and just getting them those qualifications so they can start working.

And so I decided to come here.

So I let her know that, submitted her all the documents on you guys worked, worked with the school on those types of things, what I'm going to need.

And then from there, I mean, waited for my approval from her supervisor and just kind of started packing, getting ready to come up here.

So.

Awesome.

So you got the technical details kind of out of the way, getting the cohort that you're coming.

I know you pushed to kind of get in the cohort that you wanted because you wanted to get in the workforce earlier rather than later.

And there is kind of a rolling window of if you don't get in one, then you're stuck waiting for a little while.

And that's true for a lot of programs.

So you make the decision, you get everything set to come up here.

What were your expectations coming in?

What did you think this was gonna be like?

I mean, I expected it to be hard.

I expected to struggle with at least something or fail something.

I expected hopefully to make some friends.

We spent four months together, so I figured we would build at least some sort of relationship because at some point, you know, it goes from being okay, like, this is just somebody that I see every day to, oh, okay, like, let's hang out after class.

Let's go do this, you know, and things like that, which is always nice.

Like I said, having that brotherhood environment or, you know, sisterhood environment.

We don't have any women in our class, but if we did, you know, just having that type of environment also helps get you through the class because, I mean, it is difficult.

It is hard, but.

Yeah, I mean, I expected it to be pretty difficult to have to study.

I definitely had to study for that CDL stuff.

But.

Yeah, yeah, and you touched on some of it, but, you know, just the.

The reality versus kind of that expectation of what you thought it was going to be.

I mean, was there anything that kind of surprised you or that was different than what you were anticipating?

Yeah, it definitely surprised me, I guess, how much, like, how much more I could push my body than what I thought and just.

Just proving to myself that I'm so much more capable than what I thought.

As far as, like, for example, like reaching super duper far out on the pole or climbing as fast as, you know, like, I've gotten to.

Because those first couple days, you know, I was like, there's no way I'm going to be able to climb this pole for pull top rescue in four minutes and get the dummy all the way down to the ground.

There's no way.

But, I mean, we've been doing that this week, and I've been doing all right, so.

Definitely surprises me, just my capability.

Yeah.

Was that a.

A worry that you had coming in?

A little bit.

I. I mean, I have my own struggles with things, so I guess kind of keeping up with that standard of okay, you know, can.

Can I meet all of these qualifications and standards?

Kind of like test anxiety?

A little bit, you know, And I've also been out of school for a little while as well, so having to Study, you know, I really had to apply myself, especially for, like, the math classes and stuff.

I haven't taken a math class in a long time, you know, and I'm in a class with all these guys who just graduated high school a few weeks prior to starting the course, and they're like, oh, yeah, like, I just did this a few months ago for the math, you know, Or.

Or I just studied, you know, two weeks ago to finish up my senior year, and I'm like, oh, yeah, like, cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

I might need your help with the math a little bit, you know, so definitely just having to apply myself a little bit more than, you know, like, high school, pretty much having to apply myself a bit more.

Getting back into that kind of student groove.

Yeah, absolutely.

Do you feel like after.

Did it start to get easier after a couple weeks, or was that a.

Just kind of a, you know, a force of willpower, you know, through the whole course?

I would say the first week or two definitely was a struggle.

You know, it's like high school all over again.

You gotta wake up at this time, make sure you're here, make sure you're prepared, you know, you know, have all your study materials, make sure you're studying every night.

Definitely was a struggle for the first couple weeks.

But once I got into that routine, now we're, you know, a couple weeks from finishing, and I'm waking up without my alarm a lot of the time.

So it is always fun watching guys the first two or three weeks, early morning, showing up almost bleary, looks like they just rolled out of bed.

And usually by the end, they're kind of, you know, they're into the group.

They know what to expect for the day.

They.

They know the drill.

So, I mean, beyond the.

Just the physical aspect, I mean, I would love to hear some.

Some specifics.

Like, how is this experience pushed you?

Yeah, I would say, I guess being away from home, that's definitely pushed me to be more comfortable with, like, I guess being away from, like, my fiance, you know, not sleeping in my own bed.

Um, I've been lucky enough that she's been able to come up here and stay for a little while.

She's been up here for, like, this past month probably.

But, yeah, just being away from home, getting comfortable, being uncomfortable.

And obviously those are things that I did in the military.

But this is a little.

It's different.

You know, I'm with a whole new group of people, so there's an adjustment to that.

Just getting to know people, putting yourself out there and Getting comfortable with that fact that, like, okay, you know, I don't really know these guys yet, but it's going to be all right.

So just things like that kind of.

Definitely just kind of.

It's just kind of weird, you know, coming up here with people you don't completely know.

Even though I've done it once, you know, in the military, but it's just kind of.

Just kind of weird.

Yeah.

I think there's probably a.

Anytime you have something where you're.

It is voluntarily, you chose to, you know, what's forcing you to do this?

Not like high school.

You have to be there.

The military, depending on circumstances.

Like, sometimes, like, people were boxed into that decision a little bit.

Other times, you know, people chose it just to.

For whatever reasons they may have.

But again, once you're enlisted, you can't.

There are hoops to jump through to leave like you are.

Once you're committed, you are in here.

You have to keep choosing to show up week over week.

You could walk away at any time.

Yep.

So you're having done that now for, I don't know, 10, ish, 10, 11 weeks, something like that.

Do you feel more or less sort of compelled or dedicated to pursuing this path?

I guess, honestly, being here and doing this every day, it makes me more compelled to want to show up to class.

Like you said, you know, you have to, you know, kind of want to be here.

Nobody's, you know, forcing you or holding your hand to show up to class.

You know, Kyle's not knocking on our doors every morning saying, hey, come on, let's go.

You know, you have to want to show up.

Everybody's reason is a little bit different.

You know, for me, I want to be able to provide for my family.

I want to be able to, you know, have a good career, you know, with good people.

So that's kind of my why and why I show up every day.

But also I enjoy it, you know, and I enjoy learning new things and, you know, participating in class.

So.

Yeah.

Is there anything that you wish someone had kind of explained better about kind of what you were getting yourself into or that you wish you would have known ahead of time, just in general, that maybe we could kind of help others who haven't made the plunge yet?

Like, you know, what maybe they should know ahead of time?

I guess what other people should expect to know ahead of time is expect things to be very difficult.

Expect some of the stuff that you'll see some of the guys doing.

For example, if, you know, Kyle or Mike are showing Us how to do something, expect it to look a little crazy, you know, and expect it to look a little scary and be like, oh, my gosh, like, there's no way that I can do this, but you can do it.

It might be uncomfortable.

It might scare you a little bit, but you can do it.

I mean, it's definitely scary, but you can do it.

You're capable.

Yeah, I think that's a. I mean, it's a good statement for anything.

And when there's something that looks really intimidating, there's a reason that you can't just look at it and, like, assume that is a reasonable mind.

It does not look at something that's complicated or dangerous and say, like, I could do that.

Easy.

There's natural sort of survival instinct that kicks in.

You're like, whoa, hold on.

That's okay.

But through the course of this experience, having seen you and your classmates go through this and many other groups, there's that sort of gradual evolution of what you're capable of.

You're not going to go to, like, week 10 stuff in week one and be able to do it right away.

But could you talk just about the kind of the building blocks aspect?

Because I've watched it enough from the outside.

People who come in at different stages, some people take an actor right away.

They're athletic, they've got the physique for it, and they don't struggle as much.

Others, like, I've never done anything like this, and eventually they get it all the same.

So what has that sort of building experience been like for you?

Yeah, so I guess we.

We could start from day one, when we first got our gear.

The day we got our gear, just setting it up and everything like that.

A little bit complicated, you know, you don't know what anything's called.

And they're like, all right, this piece right here.

And you're like, well, which piece is that?

So that's a little bit complicated.

Once you get set there, you know, your next day, you're probably going to be over at the poles, climbing up just a couple feet.

It's definitely uncomfortable.

It's definitely scary.

You can definitely start to.

You.

You can feel it even just a couple feet up, you know, like in working different muscle groups.

My hands were so sore for the first couple weeks because I was just not used to using that type of grip strength to keep myself, you know, more vertical.

Because you're not just laying back in your.

Your belt the entire time.

You know, you got to hold yourself forward a little bit.

So just Working those different muscle groups, I mean, that's.

That it's a challenge.

I mean, for sure, most of us aren't used to that stuff.

I'm not used to it.

I, you know, I wasn't clowning climbing trees and poles before I came up here to prepare.

So for me, I was like, oh, my gosh.

Like, I'm working muscles I have never even.

I never knew could be sore.

And so it was.

It was kind of crazy.

And then also, just like, your.

Your gaffs, they're going to be pretty uncomfortable, especially until you break them in.

They're brand new.

You got to kind of wear those to your body, so that way, you know, it feels nice.

Even your belt, I mean, it kind of rubs.

It's uncomfortable until you get used to it, but once you do get used to it, you know, it helps.

And then you're like, oh, okay.

Or maybe you can still feel it and you just don't think about it as much because it's kind of just a routine thing.

I'm not really sure.

Maybe the next time I put my stuff on, I'll probably be feeling it just from talking about it.

But, yeah, definitely that progression of like, okay, so this is getting easier.

You know, you start conditioning your body to climbing the poles, and you're like, oh, okay.

So, like, you know, last week I was really struggling and huffing and puffing climbing this pole.

This week, it doesn't seem as hard.

So it's kind of like sports in a way where you condition your body to get used to that type of stuff.

And once you're used to it, it's like, oh, okay, this is a little bit easier.

But there's always something, you know, harder that's coming next.

So it's like, it's kind of that progression of like, okay, so this is easier, but now I'm struggling with this.

But then the next week, that'll be a piece of cake, and then there'll be something new for you to work on.

So, yeah, I think people can understand the physical progression because if you've.

If you've played sports, if you've done any sort of.

All right, you hit the gym for a couple months and you kind of.

You commit to some sort of a physical change where you're challenging yourself.

The first three weeks suck.

No matter what, no matter what you do, there's no way to shortcut it.

It's just not going to be fun because your body has to adapt.

And then the difficulty drops pretty far from that.

It will still be Challenging, but you'll adapt that challenge quicker.

From the mental side, a lot of careers don't have the same sort of, like, consistently progressing mental barriers that you need to get around.

So, you know, take me again, like, week one through, you know, different segments, like, what.

How did you kind of overcome some of those mental barriers?

Yeah.

So, you know, week one, getting on the pole, that's.

And we're just going a couple feet up, I was like, I'm not really.

I'm not scared of heights, you know, but going a couple feet up, I was like, oh, am I scared of heights?

You know, like, maybe I am a little bit afraid.

And so just kind of pushing myself further and further up the pole.

So, you know, some people, no problem, top of the pole, you know, they're ready to go.

And I'm like, there's no way this first week that I'm going to the top of this pole.

So I go a couple, you know, a couple foot up, come down.

I'm like, okay, you know, this time I'm going to take, you know, two, three, four steps higher, go a little bit higher, and just kind of progressive, progressively building off of that.

And then as far as getting to the top of the pool, My first time, I actually had our instructor, Kyle, climb with me and take me to the top of the pool.

No shame in that.

You know, I was nervous, and so having him climb under me, kind of pushing me, like, okay, like, you know, don't come down.

You're fine.

You're not gonna fall.

Because, you know, getting over that fear of falling is a really, really big thing when it comes to heights, even for people who aren't afraid of heights.

Um, so just kind of progressing to that, to where now I can climb to the top of the pole, you know, no problem.

And I'm not afraid.

Um, you know, maybe a little nervous, especially if I, you know, cut out a little bit, but I'm not afraid.

And I'm not like, oh, like, I have to come down, you know?

Yeah.

If you have a little.

Little moment where you slip or something.

Yeah.

You kind of freeze up for a minute.

You're like, okay, yeah.

All right.

Pay attention.

Yep.

Let me.

Let me just slow down a little bit.

Because you get, you know, you get in your groove and you get going, and then you cut out a little bit and you're like, oh, like, you know, and it stops your flow a little bit, and you're like, oh, man.

Like, I need to slow down.

Like, take a deep breath and just kind of move A little bit slower.

Maybe I was rushing, maybe, you know, missed a step, put the gaff in at the wrong angle.

But you know, at the end of the day, none of us are just like panicking and climbing down, which is good.

So.

Yeah, so getting up that, getting up to the top of the pole first time, getting used to the pole, swaying back and forth.

You know, wind feeling can be quite different.

30, 40Ft up then on the ground.

Yeah, absolutely.

So what about.

Were there any other kind of big barriers just for anyone who has these sort of fears, it's entirely natural.

Absolutely.

Everyone does it.

There's a very small minority of people that are just psychos that can just sprint up and down the pole and not have any concern.

It's very normal to just take some time to kind of get over this stuff and it is something you can work through.

Yeah, there were, there were several people in every class that will struggle with certain, you know, exercises.

Alley arms going up the 90 foot pole, going, you're doing crossovers, whatever it might be, but eventually you just, you get through it and usually something has to go wrong first.

Like the thing you're worried about will happen and you're like, oh, I'm alive still and I'm okay.

You know, I know you had a little bit of an incident coming down the, the big center pole where, where you were nervous about it and then the thing happened and you are still here.

So, you know, what was that experience like?

Yeah, so climbing the center pole for time.

We have 20 minutes to do two crossovers and then you do like insulator change out.

So you just move them from one side to the other.

You know, I went up perfectly fine, no slip ups.

I was a little bit nervous, you know, just because I was working.

Worried about falling.

Coming down.

I was going over my last crossover, slipped up a little bit, fell a little bit, scared me.

I tensed up, you know, got myself repositioned, back on the pole, came the rest of the way down.

I did pass for time, but yeah, it kind of, it scared me a little bit.

That was probably one of my biggest falls that I had and that's what I was worried about.

I was just worried about falling and hurting myself.

Had had a little bit of a bruise.

I was okay, didn't fall.

And I think that's kind of what made like just kind of that fear of falling just kind of like click and kind of go away a little bit.

Like I'm not really afraid to fall.

I mean everybody's afraid to fall.

But like I'm not super duper afraid.

Like, oh my gosh, I can't go any higher because if I fall, I'm gonna hurt myself, so.

Right.

And for those that they.

That don't know how kind of the straps work or kind of the set that you're in, you've got your belt holding you in place and you've got a strap around the pole.

So when you fall, your brain's telling you you're gonna fall and hit the ground.

But the reality is when you fall, you're going to fall a bit, the strap is going to tighten and catch you and you're going to hit the pole probably with your legs maybe.

I mean, you did your chest.

I mean, did you, you know, what, what happened?

Yeah, so it just kind of, it just kind of depends a little bit, I guess how you fall.

For me, like I fell in.

In towards the pole.

So I hit the pole a little bit and I hit my arm a little bit.

I'm not sure if it was like on the cross arm or what, but I had a little bit of a bruise.

You know, some people, they, they fall in, their belt might slip up a little bit, but it still catches them.

Mine might slip up a little, but it's not anything extreme.

But most of the time you're probably just going to fall inwards towards the pole, have to push yourself back off of it, put your feet back in the pole and then just keep on going.

Yeah, so it's going to, it's going to smart a little.

It's going to be a little uncomfortable.

Splinters and bruises is really kind of the worst case scenario.

Assuming you're, you're.

Your gear is attached.

Like, don't free climb.

Yeah, no, let's not do that.

Have, have your primary and your secondary on.

If your secondary is off or something, like, have a strap on the pole and you'll be all right.

That's the main kind of takeaway.

And then I think the, you know, the worst case beyond that is a mental thing that a lot of people struggle, like almost everyone struggles with is the alley arm, which is you.

You can explain kind of what this is because it takes everything you do up to that point of going straight up and kind of around things up, and then suddenly is like, you're going out.

What was that like?

Yeah, the alley arm.

I remember watching the first couple guys do it and I was like, there is no way in heck that I can do this.

I was like, it moves so much.

I was like, so not only do I have to Go to the top.

Top of the pole.

I have to do a crossover up there, and then I have to go, you know, outwards.

It's kind of like an upside down L. And I was like, there's.

There's no way that I can do this.

And then I see him get out, you know, kind of on it a little bit, and I'm like, oh, I have to swing my leg up over it and lay on top of it.

I'm like, how in the heck am I going to do this?

So I'm like, all right.

So I, you know, climb up there.

I get up there, and I'm just sitting there, and I'm, like, thinking, you know, thinking through in my head, like, how am I going to do this?

Like, we'll see how this goes.

So I get my foot kind of out on, like, the brace that's out there.

Take my foot out of the pole, which is its own fear in itself, because I'm like, okay, well, I'm not, like, on the pole.

Something that, you know, I'm used to just climbing up on.

And now I'm.

I have a leg dangling in the air, and the other one's out on a brace.

Like, this is real uncomfortable.

And then the first time I went to swing my leg over, couldn't get it over.

I just panicked a little bit.

I was scared of, like, tipping over the front of it, pretty much.

Even though I know my belt's there, it's gonna catch me.

I mean, I was terrified.

Just because nobody wants to fall face forward because I might pass out or something.

I don't know.

Because I might expect that it's not gonna catch me, even though it is, because you're wrapped around it.

So first time I tried to swing my leg over, couldn't get it over.

Second time, I was able to get my leg over, and then you have to kind of scoot yourself out onto it to reach the insulator.

It's a little nerve wracking as well.

They shake quite a bit.

And if it's windy that day, you're going to be moving a little, and then you got to change out the insulator at the end, and then you scoot yourself back.

And then you have to basically do everything in reverse.

You know, swing your leg back over, which is scary, too, because I down on the ground, we were practicing lower ones, and when I had went to swing my leg back over, my other foot slipped and I fell backwards.

And I was just sitting there hanging off of it.

So my biggest fear was that was Going to happen up in the air.

Yeah.

You know, and that's.

That's a no go for me.

Like, I definitely would panic.

I told the guys, you know, Kyle might have to come rescue me in the bucket.

If I'm sitting there dangling, there's no.

There's no way that I'm going to be able to, you know, muster the strength, like, mentally to get myself back on the pole just because I think I'll be so scared.

Luckily, that didn't happen, but it did happen to me down low.

So that was a big mental barrier for me because I was just sitting there hanging, like.

So if this happens in the air, like, I'm kind of, you know.

Right.

You're not hitting the ground, but you're also in a pretty compromised position of, you know, dangling at kind of an angle.

Yeah.

You know, with enough strap that it's going to be hard to get yourself back up.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then, yeah, I struggle even on the lower one to get myself back over there.

And then you just add the height thing into that factor and you're like, oh, okay.

Like, I'm just going to be dangling, like, you know, 30 foot up in there.

Hopefully I'll be okay.

Yeah.

Around a really supportive group of guys that are definitely not gonna, you know, laugh about it.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So, I mean, it is.

I think for most that is probably the big, like, that's the dragon of the program.

There's a.

There are hard things besides that, but I think that is probably the most.

It's the thing that I look at him like, I'm good.

You guys have fun with that.

That looks.

That's its own.

It takes a certain kind of person.

Funny enough, when I came down, I thought we were only gonna have to do it the once.

And I was like, I'm done.

Don't have to do it again.

Come down.

Kyle's like, yeah, everybody's doing it a second time.

And I was like, oh, no.

I was like, I have to do this twice.

Luckily, the second time I felt a lot more confident and a lot better about it.

So I understand the idea behind doing it twice because I think it definitely helped a lot of us.

We all got through it it a lot faster.

But, man, I was scared.

Yeah.

And I think that is probably the biggest sort of takeaway in something like this of just a preparation of.

You don't know what you're going to have to do out on sites.

Like if you go do storm cleanup or you go do different jobs, you don't you don't know what is going to get thrown your way.

So if you're looking at something like, I know I need to go out to make, you know, to do what I have to do, and you're just sitting there grappling with it on the job, trying to like, muster up the courage to give it a try, like that's, you know, probably not going to work out long term.

You got to be able to kind of figure things out and believe in yourself, know that you're going to be okay.

Like control, you can control, do what you need to do and take care of the job.

Okay.

So the other day you mentioned something else that you brought up that is not really known amidst your classmates, amidst your time here that you mentioned wanting to talk about for others who may be able to relate, who are looking at different career options, different trades, trying to figure out what path is right for them, I would, I'll put that kind of in your court of, you know, how you wanna, how you want to bring that up.

Yeah, honestly.

Yeah.

So I am a trans man.

I was genetic, like genetically assigned female at birth.

You know, it's a big part of who I am.

It's not something that many people know.

Obviously.

My family knows, you know, and my friends from high school know I transitioned in high school.

So, um, you know, that's pretty well known from where I'm from.

Sure.

You know, it's not a huge secret.

It's out there on social media.

If you look hard enough, if you look me up on Google, you can definitely find is out there.

It's not super duper private information, but it's definitely shaped just like my resilience for a lot of environments and things like that.

And just like it's helped instill a lot of confidence in myself.

And I think that's what has helped me overcome a lot of the obstacles during this school, you know, because, you know, some people aren't very confident in themselves and that's, that's okay.

You know, the school will help you build that confidence, that's for sure.

But for me, I kind of had that, that building block of okay, like, you know, you know, I'm very confident in myself and just, I know who I am and you know, that's just kind of helped me progress and build onto that confidence.

Like, okay, you know, I can do, I can do this, I can do this, you know.

Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't know if you have any questions about it, I guess.

Yeah, I wanted to bring it up.

Because why?

I can only speak from our, you know, our side of things.

Every industry has all sorts in it.

And I think that, you know, the spirit of what this podcast is for has always been to speak about the trades with people in the trades or who are entering the trades or, you know, who all kind of share more or less the same goal of wanting a good job, a good career, and ability to provide for themselves and for their families, to live a good life, to do the things they want to do, do work that matters, and that is something that everyone deserves, regardless of man, woman, it doesn't matter.

Many of these industries are male dominated.

That's.

I'm not going to say it's starting to change because there's just a. I mean, there would be a tremendous upset to make it.

To balance it out.

I don't think it will ever really be like a 50 50, but making it more apparent that anyone can enter these trades.

And as long as you kind of know who you are and you can just.

It's about being able to do the job, not about, like, whatever sort of identifier is assigned to you.

I. I'm trying to.

No, absolutely.

So I would say there is a huge stigma around, like, blue collar trades that, you know, it's going to be this not so friendly environment for anybody in the LGBTQ community.

And honestly, even for women, you know, there's a huge stigma around it that it's not going to be safe and friendly environment.

Personally, I don't think that's 100% true.

Now you're going to encounter that anywhere.

It doesn't matter.

And it's not even just the blue collar trades.

You're going to see that anywhere.

Yeah.

And so don't let that be something that's going to hold you back from doing what you want to do.

For me personally, I was nervous going into it, even just coming up here, just because, you know, it is a part of who I am.

You know, I shouldn't feel like I have to keep it a secret.

Um, but it's also just that anxiety thing in the back of my head.

Like, you know, there's this huge stigma that it's.

It's not gonna turn out well.

You know, it's not gonna be a friendly environment if people knew.

Um, and that's kind of where, you know, I'm kind of like, okay, well, the information's out there.

If somebody finds out, you know, then it is what it is.

It'll be okay.

You know, people aren't always gonna agree with you and what you do, and that's.

That's okay.

Everybody's free to feel their own opinion, you know, and I have no issues with that, but I just don't think it should be something that holds people back from, you know, doing what they want to do.

So enjoying in the traits.

Because for me, it was definitely a big decision.

Just because that's what I've always heard is like, you know, it's not going to be a great environment.

It's not going to be a friendly environment.

But then I really sat there with myself and I was like, well, any environment can be like that.

This is just one of the more known ones, I guess, that people say, okay, yeah, this is not going to be a positive experience for you.

Right.

I think there's a number of stigmas in blue collar work that are.

That one is a.

It's pervasive where it's, you know, it's generally assumed that it will be a little more crass, a little bit more, you know, and some can argue that it's camaraderie that comes through and like, it's out of love, like, well, I don't know, maybe.

But I don't think one.

I don't think using that is a reasonable excuse for bad behavior on an individual level.

It shifts accountability, and it is up to each person and each company and each individual sort of culture to decide what sort of behavior is tolerated.

First and foremost, not an HR rant.

But the other thing is, you know, it should really stem down to finding things that bring us together, like finding things and people that we can connect with, that we are, that make us the same, rather than trying to fixate on the individual things that make us different.

Absolutely.

And that just makes every workplace better.

And I think a lot of it comes down to just not really getting to know people.

And this has, like you've shown just in this class, like, you're here to do the same thing that everyone else is doing.

And everyone here has something that makes them different and that should not be the reason to not do something.

But finding all the reasons that you can and should do something are why everyone is here.

Yeah, absolutely.

I would say one of the big reasons too, why it wasn't something that I, you know, just brought up is because I don't want that to be like an identifier for myself, you know what I mean?

I don't want to just be known as that, you know, trans person.

I just want to be known as one of the other guys, you know, I want to be judged based off of who I am as a person.

You know what I mean?

Just like my traits, you know, what I value, you know, do we value the same things?

Are we interested in the same things?

Do we have the same hobbies?

You know, instead of, okay, you know, your, your gender identity is not the same as mine.

Therefore, you know, it's, it's a problem.

Yeah, you know, I don't like being judged off of that.

And that's not, you know, it's not something that I bring up the first time I meet somebody.

You know what I mean?

I'm not just like, hey, yeah, you know, this is what's up.

I'm just, you know, just another guy.

So anyone who announces, like, details of their birth in the first conversation, no matter what it is, is weird.

That's a weird thing to do.

100%.

So, yeah, just in kind of the full state of transparency.

Like, you know, this is about, you know, finding our individual merits and putting in the work.

Like you.

There is no one gets, you know, a different curriculum.

Everyone's held to the same standard, and that is the way that equality ultimately works.

Like, when we are all held to the same standard, regardless of whatever individual differences we might have, then, I mean, then we're all in it together and the other things shouldn't matter.

Yeah, absolutely.

So what is.

I, I'm interested on, just in general, either about the trades or, you know, kind of your own individual experience.

Like, what is something that you believed to be true about, about line work, since that's the trade you're going into, that you found that is just false?

Oh, man, that's a big question.

Believe to be true, but it's false?

Honestly, I'm not sure.

Yeah, I'm not sure for that one.

I'll ask.

What is something that you believe to be true about yourself or your abilities that you found to not be true?

I guess I would say just like, I didn't, I didn't think that I would be able to keep up with, I guess, some, some of the younger guys.

I mean, yeah, it's only a couple of years, but I also, you know, like, I, I, I have my own struggles, as I said, you know, and so just being able to keep up.

But I've been able to keep up pretty well, you know, and just kind of meet that standard and exceed it a little bit.

And maybe it was just a bit of an anxiety thing, just like, oh, okay, can I meet these standards?

Like, can I actually keep up, you know, and do all this conditioning and things like that.

But I've, you know, I've been keeping up.

I'm getting ready to finish, so, I mean, that's always a good sign.

So.

Yeah, okay.

For someone who is maybe thinking about what they want to, you know, what they want to do, maybe they're in school, maybe they have been out for a little while and they're just kind of.

They are ready for something different.

Do you have any sort of advice or wisdom that you'd offer them?

I would say definitely, you know, do your own personal research.

This isn't a career that I would personally say to get into lightly, just because it is, you know, high risk, but high reward.

You know, you are gonna be risking your life a little bit out there.

You're working on, you know, highly energized lines.

But if you're interested, I would definitely do your research, you know, look at, you know, programs and things like that.

And kind of, if you're interested in it, I would say go for it.

Just, you know, really think about it.

Cause also, this is a career where you're gonna have to travel quite a bit.

You know, are you gonna be okay being away from your family and traveling, you know, all around the country?

You can bring them with you sometimes, you know, you can travel with them in a camper.

But, you know, do you want to travel?

Do you like to drive and travel all around the country?

So just definitely think about it.

If you're interested, I would say go for it.

But, yeah, just always keep that in the back of your mind.

Yeah, well, I think that is.

Is a good place to wrap up for anyone that is trying to think about whether or not this is right for you.

The advice I would close with is try it.

Find an open house, a tour, something to go and physically do it.

Because it's one thing to read about it, to watch others talk, hear them talk about it, watch videos.

It's a very different thing to put a belt on and go up 10, 20, 30ft and feel like, oh, actually, maybe not actually for me.

And you'll have an idea of whether it's something that you can work through or if it's something that's going to be a big blocker for you and that's going to save you a lot of anguish.

So before, give it a try.

The same goes for a lot of trades.

Find someone that can let you tag along for a day.

Most are probably going to be willing to accommodate you and get a taste before you just dive in.

Because we want people to make the right decision for them.

Not something that they were talked into or persuaded to do.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Naani, thank you very much for coming on and for everyone listening, watching.

We'll see you in the next one.