E{emum} | The More They Need Drivers, The Harder They Make It

Seems like the more demand there is for truck drivers out there, the harder they're making it to get their CD up.

The demand increases.

So then as you try and push for increased supply, you gotta limit how many can get in.

Because for all the reasons we want, people safe on the road, you know it, you can do a lot of damage in a truck.

Never think that you cannot do it.

Too many.

Too many people think that right off the get go they look at the trucks and most of them are intimidated of the size.

Advice, don't let that stop you.

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Today I have Mac Knight here with us.

He's an instructor here at the school.

You've been teaching CDL for how long now?

26 Years.

26 Years.

So you've seen a couple things over that time.

Yeah, yeah.

So some things have changed for the better.

Some.

I don't even understand why they changed, but yeah.

Well, what I want to do in this conversation is, I mean, there's been a lot of changes over time.

There's been a lot of changes in the last couple of years.

We're not going to get too far into the weeds.

But for someone who's considering either getting into this industry or they've been in for the last couple years, should I consider trucking viable long term here?

Is this still a good choice for me?

Hopefully we can cover a little bit of what you've seen in that time.

Some of the changes that have happened, some of the things that everyone thought was going to change and never actually did, and maybe a little bit of what you've seen.

People who have thrived in this industry do that, maybe others haven't.

Well, when you're first getting into the industry, a lot of people, all they think about originally is home time.

But realistically, going through a school, you have to pay your dues, as it were.

Get with a big company, they have trainers to keep you going.

They'll teach you their way of doing the ELDs compared to paper log books.

When I first started, you know, the ELDs are good.

It keeps people honest, it keeps them on track and you can still make a real good living even with the ELDs.

But to get with a big company, they know their stepping stones.

That's why in the industry, there's a big turnover rate because the ultimate goal for most truck drivers, not all of them, but most of them, want local.

They want home time.

So.

Yeah.

So for someone who has no idea, maybe they're not in the industry yet, they're just kind of feeling things out.

You say eld, what is that?

What was the turn from.

You used to do this on paper, and then ELD became the standard.

What was it like?

What is it like now?

What's it for?

The eld, which is electronic logging devices, keep track of everything, your hours, your miles, all the things that we as truckers from, you know, forever ago had to write out in the paper logbooks.

It takes care of for you.

The recap now.

Recap is keeping track of your hours that you have left out of a 70, because a trucker starts out with 70 hours a week or work.

You know, so a lot of truckers got in trouble because they really didn't know how to do a recap.

But the eld, now, it does it for you.

It keeps track of everything, keeps you honest.

Yes.

Yeah.

So was there a kind of a scandal that kind of led that to become the standard?

Was it just natural advancement?

Too many truckers in the past ran 1, 2, 3 logbooks, and now fatigue sets in.

Accidents happen.

That's why the ELDs had to come out, because, you know, one bad apple spoils a whole bunch.

Well, these guys that were cheating with paper logbooks, too many accidents happened, so they had to do something.

Yeah.

Over time.

What?

And I know you came in right around that time.

What have been some other major advancements or kind of changes over time in terms of regulation?

Well, the biggest thing are the hours of service, because that's what got most people in trouble.

But now with schools, they really have to be cracking down because the standards have gotten a lot higher than they were.

They were kind of relaxed at the beginning, but now, especially with the training that goes on out there, a lot of people think they're trainers, but they're not.

They're just sitting in the seat.

You know, these guys, they have to be trained on safety.

That's above all in the trucks.

So with that, well, the pre trip I want to hit on too, because before we had a checklist that most companies give their drivers.

They check over their truck trailer.

They have a checklist to go down.

We first started out with that checklist and then they got rid of the checklist and everything was just pointable on the pre trip.

Then they took it a step further and now there's automatic fails on the pre trip that weren't there before.

So I might be wrong, but it seems like the more demand there is for truck drivers out there, the harder they're making it to get their cdl.

Sure.

Yeah.

Throttle.

Over the years, that's what I've seen.

Right.

Making it more selective because there's supply, the demand increases.

So then as you try and push for increased supply, you got to limit how many can get in.

Because for all the reason we want people safe on the road.

You know it.

You can do a lot of damage in a truck.

Oh, yes, you can.

So from the.

You mentioned something for people thinking they're trainers when they're not.

And I don't want to get too in the weeds.

I'm not trying to speak negatively of anyone, but right now, if you look up CDL school, you're probably going to see somewhere pretty quick of schools getting shut down for many different reasons.

Some were only active on paper.

Yeah.

So we're not really talking about them.

They essentially defunct.

Like they weren't really training to begin with.

But you see these schools that are getting shut down, some of them for preposterous.

Like what they were getting away with doing.

Correct.

Yeah.

I mean, what are you, what are you seeing there?

I think that when you become a trainer, you have to be trained.

You don't.

Most people can't just sit in a truck.

And here I am, I'm a trainer.

You know, I know you have to hold a CDL for so many years, but being a trainer, it's a different world.

Sitting in the passenger seat, driving the truck through someone else.

Not everybody is cut out for that.

And a lot of people fool themselves and think they are.

Like I said, this is just a broad spectrum.

I'm not pointing fingers at anything or anybody.

But too many times you see somebody get their instructor license.

You know, to get an instructor license, you got to be fingerprinted, background check.

And you're supposed to be trained in the field.

Yeah.

You know, I see a lot out there that, you know, if they shadow somebody and then all of a sudden, oh, here I am, I'm a trainer.

They're not ready.

Yeah, there.

That's a good way to put it.

A lot of people are not ready to be trainers, so.

Yeah.

Well, there's something to be said for having lived experience where if you're not just showing someone how to shift is you're.

You're coaching people on how to succeed in the industry once they leave here.

Ideally, it's not just great, you got your cdl.

It's like, no, you got your job, you got a job you like and you're doing well.

There are some that they point fingers and say, those who can't do, teach.

And people throw that at every industry.

But there are plenty of people in the industry as kind and considerate as truckers always are.

Some will say CEO schools are a scam.

And I think a lot of it boils down to some of these operations where it's just not people are now being set up to succeed.

Correct.

Correct.

And, well, there goes with the one bad apple.

A couple schools out there who weren't doing it right kind of set a bad example for the ones who are doing it right.

And I guess that's why we're seeing a lot of them being shut down, because they.

They ran too long doing it that way.

Yeah.

You know, I just read a story of school that I can't remember where they were, but it was like 20 students for one truck, and they only had one truck and it broke down constantly.

So, like, they were fighting over seat time to even if the truck could even be run and then if it would even pass, like, you know, DMV requirements and.

Right.

Like.

And their.

Their classroom was in like a school bus or something.

Whoa.

That's interesting that.

I mean, visit the campus maybe before you commit to going somewhere.

There are lots of good places that are.

Not that.

I mean, I think those are extreme edge cases, but they're out there.

But do your homework.

Check out websites, check out reviews.

I mean, they're out there, right.

In a bus?

No, I don't think so.

Right.

You need to have a lot of these audits and different DOT kind of crackdowns they're looking for.

Making sure there's adequate space for maneuvers, making sure you're on equipment that's not.

That's not gonna break down every other day.

Break down.

It's safe.

Like you can.

It's road legal.

That's a good start.

Yes.

Something I didn't realize before starting here.

I thought this was gonna be like a bigger, scaled up version of like, driver's ed training where you've got your instructor and they're making sure you're doing everything.

But they've got the safety break on their side where if the student panics or something goes wrong, that they can.

You can step in and kind of take over.

That's not the case.

The only thing we have are the valves on the dash.

And in 26 years, I've only had to pull the valves, the emergency brakes, twice.

Not bad in 26 years.

And that's usually when a driver waits too long to downshift because we have a turn coming up, they go into a turn a little quick.

Now, in any vehicle, if you come into that turn too quick, your brain is going to tell you to turn early.

And then the brain at that point says, trailer.

What trailer?

So I try to get the driver to stop.

And if they're totally panicking in the brain, they tune you out.

They don't hear you right.

So I pop the brake.

Then I get the death stare because now they're refocusing and I'll say, look at the mirror.

And usually we're about a foot away from a pole or something, and they'll go, oh.

I said, let's back it up four ways.

I get out, back them up, and then we do the turn.

Right.

But yeah, it's interesting out there.

It takes a demeanor, I think, to a sort of inner calm.

True.

I can always tell whenever you guys all hit that first week out on the road, the first day or so, everyone comes back to lunch a little more.

Little more tense, A little edgy.

A little edgy.

A little.

But usually by the end of the week, it's a little.

They smooth out.

Yeah, yeah.

And the students, believe it or not, can be harder on themselves because we are our worst critics.

Sure.

They're harder on themselves than the instructors are.

So I just have to remind my students that I have in the truck.

What's the name of the place you're at school?

If you already knew how to do it, you wouldn't be here.

So it kind of.

Right.

Gets them to lay off themselves a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, get the practice in, ask the questions.

So, I mean, to that spirit, I mean, having trained at this point, do you have even a guess of how many people you've trained?

No, I don't.

I mean, hundreds at the minimum.

I've been faces, but I can't remember names anymore.

Hundreds at the minimum.

Yeah.

Thousands.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Quite a few.

I mean, of those, what have you seen from Those that have come in and they've done well for themselves.

Like, what are.

Have you noticed any sort of characteristics or behaviors that kind of help set people up for success?

Well, positive attitude.

You have to have, you know, a lot of students have at least a plan in mind.

And those that do, those that keep an open mind for the industry.

Okay, I'm not gonna be local, home every day.

Yeah.

I'm gonna get out there, get a feel of the industry, and, you know, six months to a year, you're gonna know if truck driving is for you or not.

But the ones that have a plan and just go and just work, they love it.

I get emails while text from former students saying, hey, still grinding gears, you know, you know, messing around but loving every part of it.

And those are the ones that have a plan.

The ones that come in because they have to get a job or, you know, they're a little more stressed about it, but a lot of the times they find something they're looking for, they're good to go.

And then they'll say, hey, it's working out now.

It's great.

So give it a little bit of time.

Everybody, everybody is impatient, you know, Give it a little time, see what's out there, get a feel for everything.

And the majority are very happy, you know.

Yeah, I think I've heard it a few different times where that first year in any new industry, it's just, you're still.

Honestly, you're still learning.

I mean, you're just getting a grasp on learning what you didn't even know.

You didn't know.

Correct.

Getting some of the experiences, which there's going to be highs, there's going to be lows, there's going to be times.

You're like, this is the worst.

I can't do this.

And then you might have a week where like, you know what?

This ain't so bad.

Yeah, yeah.

Good weather, smooth sailing, not construction season.

Like, this is great.

Straight north cones.

You know, we tell people at the school, too, the students, I always reference icebergs.

I'll tell them, above the water, you see so much of an iceberg, right?

What does it do below the water?

It gets huge.

I said, we are the tip of the iceberg.

We'll get you all the safety, we'll get you going, get a good feel of the industry, the trucking and everything.

I said, when you leave here now, you're going to be learning a whole new set of things.

Because, of course, we're not in the passenger seat.

We have their Backs, we're training them, we're talking them through everything, you know, but when you go out there, that's when they're going to learn.

And I tell them, if you ever get up one morning and say, you know what?

I've seen everything, I've done everything.

I know, everything.

Get off the road.

Because now you're a danger.

Sure.

Every day you learn something new.

26 Years, and I'm seeing new things every class that I teach.

So, yeah, what are.

So there's only so much that you have a really, you know, you have an incredibly short amount of time.

Correct.

To get the fundamentals down.

Touching the things that they're legally required to know just from a regulation standpoint so they can be road legal.

Getting them as comfortable as you can in a manner of a couple of weeks with core fundamental skills, really just getting them equipped enough so they can kind of get to the.

All right, I can figure things out, or I kind of.

I've got a base and now I can build on it, have some, you know, a finishing program or whatever, you know, fill in some gaps.

Right.

Are there any specific things that people should kind of be aware of that they might get kind of blindsided by or things that once they're out of school, that they're gonna have to kind of figure out themselves?

The biggest thing is when you become a truck driver, even if with your regular driver's license, you've never really dealt with police or sheriff for getting pulled over.

When you get into the trucking industry, it's going to be a regular thing because the dot, they have to.

They have to do their job and check trucks, make sure everything's safe on the road and everything.

So when you get into the trucking industry, you're going to be dealing with law enforcement a lot more than you would in your personal vehicle.

Okay, so what should be kind of the.

I mean, the mindset going into that?

You just expect it.

How should someone kind of plan to just have that be a, you know, a smooth interaction?

Well, make sure your paperwork is all together, your truck is good to go on the road.

No mechanical errors or anything.

And with the scales, just listen.

Some are lights, some are audios.

Over your radio, just listen to what they're saying.

Do what they ask you to do.

Most of the time, if you're pulled around back, it's to help out the driver.

They don't look at it that way, but if they see something.

Okay, we need to make him aware of it, you know.

Yeah.

So be cool about it be cool.

Yeah.

Anything, you know, outside of the expect getting pulled over, anything that you really school's not going to be able to prepare you for that you should kind of know is coming and just being aware of it.

Well, the biggest thing are well open scale houses that you have to pull into that'll be new for them.

Yeah, multi, multi, multi lane highways.

We can only do so much up here.

You know, we take them to the roundabouts in Marquette.

That gives them a good feel of the roundabouts in a semi.

But the bigger cities you're gonna be dealing with a lot more people, a lot more angry drivers and just stay cool.

You know, if you're in a truck and you go, you have to make a living granted.

But don't be in a hurry.

Just be aware of what's around you.

Yeah.

Kind of maintaining perspective like assume ignorance, not poor intent.

I think, I think that's in general when you're behind a big vehicle in.

A truck, hope for the best, expect the worst.

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Yeah.

From.

For people who are looking at this industry and it might be kind of their first time working, you know, real, real job, maybe done some summer jobs or you know, different things coming out of high school or younger adults, any sort of advice beyond just positive attitude and coming into it just to kind of get themselves set up,.

Keep asking questions about the job because it's all new.

They expect, you know, first time people to ask questions, learn, learn the job.

A lot of people go into either a job or conversations not really listening.

They're just listening to reply, not really listening to what's being said.

That's a big thing.

Yeah.

I think for younger people specifically something I wish I had taken more advantage of is when you were new and you're young and you're learning and you're just getting started, people are very willing to help you generally.

I mean if you approach it from a place of humility and approaching people and asking them questions earnestly.

Am I like hey, I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to get my start.

Can I ask you some questions?

Most people are going to be open to that.

Yes, they are.

And you can take that as far as you want.

It can be at truck stops or rest centers.

It could be within companies.

You can reach out.

You can find most people online these days if you, if there's a company you really want to work for, reaching out to people in different areas and like hey, could I just get on the phone with you for 5, 10 minutes and ask you some questions.

A lot of people are going to say yes.

If they see a 18, 19, 20 year old, they're like, absolutely.

Oh yeah.

Taking initiative.

Yeah.

They're going to talk to them and.

They're, I mean, even if you're not interviewing at that company yet.

Right.

And then they see your name come through like it does such good things for you that once you hit, I don't know, I hit like 24, 25.

People are still okay.

They were friendly, but they weren't as willing to go out of their way to help me.

Now I'm like, all right, now I'm a peer.

I'm getting into more.

Like I could be a competitor.

And it changes a little bit as you get older and now the perception changes.

So if you're in that window, take advantage of it.

Yes.

Because you can get a lot of things done if you just know people and it's good practice, even if nothing comes from it.

Just network and interact with people who are further ahead than you.

True.

So any sort of just closing advice from people coming in, they want to start driving and they're just maybe on the fence or they're like, I don't know, six, six months or a year to figure this out.

I don't know, you know, any, anything.

You'd say though, if you like traveling, truck driving is for you.

You see a lot of, well, awesome sites out there.

First time I went through West Virginia, I was coming over those hills out there.

I thought that's where they get those postcards from.

I mean the views are awesome out there and if you use your time wisely and manage it, you can actually stop in some places and look around a little bit.

You know, you don't want to be late delivering the load, granted.

But there's a lot of things you can see out there.

Being a truck driver.

Yeah.

Kind of plan your drop offs and pickups a little bit and you know, you might get half a day to just kind of poke around and see some traffic.

Do you have family that live in other states?

Get a load as close as you can get to, call them, meet them at a truck stop.

You get to visit them.

You get paid to go visit them and get paid leaving.

So.

Yeah.

Well, perfect.

If you have any questions about getting CDL or trucking, let us know.

If you're already in trucking, let us know how it's going.

We love hearing what other people are doing in the industry, things they've done, things that they're enjoying because it might inspire someone who's on the fence or not sure and seeing if it would work in their own life.

And never think that you cannot do it.

Too many people think that right off the get go, they look at the trucks and most of them are intimidated of the size.

Don't let that stop you.

We'll train you here, and before you know it, you'll be driving it like your own personal vehicle.

So, yeah, it'll adjust and be a new normal.

And you, you get used to it once you're confident in your own ability to handle it.

Yep.

All right.

Well, that will do it for today.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you for listening.

We'll see you in the next one.