E{emum} | Storm Money & Tough Lessons: What I Wish Someone Told You Before Becoming a Lineman

Back then, the going rate was one in eight linemen actually just die on the job.

Back in the 40s, 50s, it was rough.

Learning from mistakes is good.

Learning from someone else's mistakes is way better.

You're gonna work with guys that are just miserable.

They're just toxic, miserable sons of bitches and ignore them the best you can.

I mean, obviously if they're your foreman or your boss, supervisor, whatever, you gotta follow their instruction.

That's what's gonna save your life out there, is following instructions.

All these guys that are in line school right now, four years from now, and they top out, they get in apprenticeship, they could be very, very well making over 65 bucks an hour.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest.

Features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Today we have Kyle Montgomery, the lead lineman instructor here at North Country.

I have been curious for a while, what I'd love to just hear about your initial background.

You know, what was the plan after high school?

Like, what were the early days before.

There was no plan.

Joined the military, retired out of that and lived a retired life.

But yeah, I only made it five years.

I ended up doing the Coast Guard.

You fill multiple roles, so diesel mechanic, basically.

Engineer was my main job.

Rescue swimmer, law enforcement, ems, we covered it all.

But yeah, I didn't really see much of a future in that anymore after about five years.

So decided to get out and went to the paper mill back home where I grew up.

And that was a dead end job.

There was no hope there.

I mean, show up one day and there's a chain across the fence.

So yeah, it just closed down.

Yeah.

Yeah, they just shot right down.

Okay.

Was this in Couldn't manistique.

I couldn't tell you what year it was.

2012.

I don't know.

Somewhere in there.

Yeah.

And it's not a big boom town, so.

No.

I assume when that closed a lot of people were in.

Yeah.

Tough spot.

Yep.

Yeah, a few hundred people that worked up there.

So yeah.

So you had the no real plan, went military when that plan didn't pan out.

And then the one kind of backup plan that everyone had in town went away.

So I mean, what happened from there?

I mean, ended up getting a job at the paper mill here in Escadaba.

It was the same thing.

I mean, too many Too many seasoned people had just been there at the mills.

No offense to them.

I mean, whatever, they got their pensions, I don't really care.

But show up to work every day, kick their feet up, relax, take naps.

Just no real enthusiasm to do a good job anymore.

And I didn't see a future there.

Started looking at my options.

Was looking at H. VAC school.

I took the initial law enforcement exam for the state of Michigan to try to get into the conservation officer Academy.

Then I was actually at my house or my parents house out in Perkins.

Alger Delta was there.

They were changing out a pole in the yard and running some new triplex into the house.

And that seems pretty neat.

So I started watching them and got to talking to my dad and found out that my, my grandpa was actually a lineman.

So that piqued my interest.

And then I started looking up lineman schools in the area and sure enough, there's one out of Marquette there.

Their school, the campus was actually in Ki Sawyer, so it wasn't too far from Perkins.

But okay.

Signed up for it last minute.

Jerry LePage, the instructor there, he got me into it.

He knew my uncle, knew some of my family, so he was able to fast pass me in and yeah, it was all downhill from there.

I mean, went to line school, did nine months for that, got out, did some odd jobs before I ended up getting my call for my apprenticeship.

And then.

Yeah, it's been a fast ride ever since.

Yeah.

Where'd you go for the apprenticeship?

Mole Valley.

I chose Mole Valley just because I had always heard good things since the time I went to line school, talking to other linemen and whatnot that it was.

And you get a better, more rounded apprenticeship.

They take a lot more guys than most of these other apprenticeships.

So they're, they're pumping guys through at a fast pace, but they don't, they don't dip on quality at all.

So.

Yeah, well, well ironed machine.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, it's.

I don't know if you one of these days go down to Indianola, you got to check out their campus.

That'd be pretty cool tour for you.

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.

So, I mean you, you know, once things started happening, it all happened fairly quickly.

Oh yeah.

When you first got in, obviously you didn't have a lot of exposure.

I mean, you had some family, but I mean, was it line school?

And I mean, like I said, did odd jobs after.

So yeah, I ended up working for a local company, tree trimming.

That was, that was interesting in itself.

I mean the they were at the early stages of doing the tree trimming thing.

Not to name names but I mean it was, it was rough.

Yeah.

A little bit more cowboy.

Yeah, it was very cowboyish for very little pay, you know.

Yeah.

My opinion, putting guys in the air near power lines that shouldn't have been there.

Yeah, it's, it's dangerous.

Yeah.

I mean I imagine a lot is and I'm sure you're, you're in your grandpa's time.

You know the things that they did then are things that would never fly now.

Oh absolutely.

I mean back then the going rate was like one in six linemen.

One in, one in eight linemen actually just die on the job.

Yeah.

Back in the 40s, 50s it was rough.

Yeah.

Now it's one in a couple thousand.

Couldn't, couldn't tell you this.

Not really sure it's better.

It's way hunt is a lot better.

So it's still considered one of the top 10 dangerous jobs in my opinion.

I think that's because of the non union side.

You get a lot more non union linemen and companies down in the south and they said, I've had a few previous students that wanted to go down there and get in with them just because they struggle on the aptitude test and they didn't want to put in much effort to try to pass it which whatever told them at least if you go down there, be safe, don't get put into a situation that you have no idea what you're doing in because what's the ultimate, I mean you're going to pay the ultimate price there.

Yeah.

You know, something happens so it's not.

Worth it for a job.

One guy did go down, he's seen it, ended up leaving, coming back up here and he was, he was doing a little bit more work and, and trying to prep for that aptitude test so he could pass it and then try to get into a actual JTC apprenticeship.

So yeah.

So for someone who might not kind of get the nuance of it, union versus non union.

Why is non union so much more dangerous?

Just a lot it is.

I mean I don't really care who, they can dispute it all they want but I mean to me you just hear stories and you go on storm down in Florida and whatnot for these companies and you'll see these non union guys come in and just the quality work that they do, it's piss poor.

I mean they'll throw anything up any which way.

They won't follow standards.

They'll take guys that Are not even qualified to be up in the air working around energized primary let alone de energized primary and just slap things together.

Any which way just says done's better than perfect.

Or is it a get the ticket.

Done and move on to the next one, make money.

I mean I'm sure that can't be.

How is that even acceptable from a, you know, from a municipality standpoint who's hiring these people to put up all their work?

Cheaper labor for one.

Sure.

I mean you take our wages as an IBW lineman versus their wage and it's plus the benefits package that you get on the top.

I mean it's that right there is why they'll take the cheaper labor especially towards the end of the job.

They'll start flushing out, getting rid of the or releasing the IBW lineman, send them home and then they'll keep the non union lineman there to finish up whatever small projects or whatever they gotta get going get the rest of their grid on.

So people who they they're aware of.

Oh yeah.

Trying to kind of game it a.

Little bit and I'll call it, I don't really care.

I mean it's truth of it, you know, if you want quality work leave the IBW lineman there and then send the send the non union guys home.

I think it should be, you know all them companies should go union.

They get better training, better benefits, better pay.

I mean why not?

Yeah, it is harder obviously because I mean like we were talking earlier, the quality of people, you know, you can't just let everyone into this trade.

It's not for everyone.

It does take a certain type of person mentality wise and you know, physical.

I mean you got to be very physical.

So yeah, not afraid to get dirty and work hard.

So something I want to touch on is I think people look at this career and they think like they want to make great money.

They see published pay ranges and things what have you in your experience, what did you see if you don't mind just even just a range of as an apprentice and moving into journeyman as part of the union and if you know what would that kind of contrast to if you were non union.

I have never looked up union or non union wages.

So I just from talking on social media and seeing it like you see what the guys say and I mean their pay is way less, way less.

Plus the benefits package.

I mean what we get on the IBW for like our benefits package up north here, 25% your 401k you don't pay a dollar into it, you get two pensions, free health care plan, HRA card.

And that's just all on top of your wage, which.

The wage as a journeyman.

I haven't been out there contracting now in two years, but want to say it's over 55 bucks an hour at least.

I mean, then every.

Every couple years or every year, they get their 3% COLA pay raise.

So, I mean, it's constantly going up.

All these guys that are in line school right now, four years from now, and they top out, they get in the apprenticeship, they could be very, very well making over 65 bucks an hour.

Yeah.

Or higher.

Ace, that's just base.

That's not doing, you know, cranking overtime.

That's not storm pay.

That's just straight time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you ever do the storm.

Storm cleanup?

Yeah, I went on storm a lot.

I mean, almost 10 years of contract or more.

I mean, every year, just constantly.

That's where we make our big money.

You know, allowed to go tax exempt for a few weeks.

So.

Yeah, you can pocket in the money as much as you can.

Okay.

And I've.

I mean, what is it just like a, you know, a multiple of your base rate or is it, you know, specialized pay for that work?

Oh, it all depends.

They'll go out on certain contracts for whatever hauls are in that area.

So it could be time and a half, could be double time.

Just all depends.

There's so many variables.

Yeah.

And where the storm's at.

I mean, everyone always wants an east coast score or storm because that's.

That's where the money is.

Usually it's all double time that you're making.

Okay.

Rather than down in, like, Florida or.

Well, Florida.

That's good money, too.

I mean, it's.

It's not hard to make ten grand a week down there.

Okay.

Take home.

Yeah.

Not.

Not too shabby.

No.

Especially a young guy.

Well, any.

Any age.

Yeah, any age.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, I mean, that is not the year.

You're not doing that every week or.

No, you're not doing it all year?

No, but there are some guys, like.

I've got a few friends.

That's all they do now since they topped out.

They just.

They're on a couple different storm call lists on their phone, and they may work six, seven, eight months out of the year chasing storm and take the rest of the year off.

And they're.

They're still clearing 150, $200,000 a year.

No problem.

Yeah.

So when you were kind of getting into this you know, people see that kind of money and it, that doesn't come without nothing in exchange.

Like, the more I've learned about this industry, the more I, I realize, like, yeah, you get paid well, but you're working for it.

You're not, you're not coasting, you're not just sitting through it.

You are out there.

It's active work.

You, it's risky, it's uncomfortable, I imagine most of the time.

Oh yeah, yeah.

That's.

I tell the students out there, first few weeks, they all start climbing, get their, their belts on and everyone's hurting.

And I, I tell them, like, there's nothing comfortable with this trade.

Wait till you got to wear rubber gloves and sleeves and it's, you know, 95 degrees with 100% humidity outside.

Then it gets uncomfortable.

Sure.

But you know, just look at the end of the line there, you know, the, the pay that you're making, the benefits packages you're getting, like, it's all worth it in the long run.

As long as you work safe too.

There's no reason why you can't have a good career and, you know, retire young and healthy.

You know, watch these guys that they just want to cowboy everything and jump off trucks and it's like, stop it.

All you're doing is hurting yourself in the long run.

You may not think it now, but, you know, 10 years from now you're going to regret that because now you're going to start having injuries where, you know, and you.

Do you see that?

I mean, some of these older linemen I've worked with roll out of their truck and they hobble over the show up trailer and.

But they're the first ones that'll start yelling at the apprentices for doing things that they did.

Like, don't do it.

Yeah.

And then that's why.

Well, look at me, I'm prime example.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can't stand up unassisted or whatever it might be just hurting, you know, that's not the goal.

So what was, what were the worst conditions you had to work in?

Oh, man.

Any, any nightmares that come back to you?

Reason I don't like going on Storm anymore.

And most time, most of my apprenticeship and when I was topped out going on Storm, you got put up in a hotel.

Now most time it's FEMA trailers and man camps and just the quality of food wasn't there.

Weren't going out for breakfast and getting a nice meal in your belly every day.

That really means something.

When you're putting in a 16 hour workday.

If I can go get a really good breakfast in the morning, I can work all day until supper.

And you know, I can usually survive off whatever throughout the day.

It's no big deal.

But starting that day with a good breakfast, that meant a lot to me.

And last few years out storming, weren't allowed to go out for breakfast anymore.

I get it, everything costs money, but you know, you gotta feed the guys that are out there putting in the work.

But yeah, I don't like that, like it's not worth it to me anymore.

I don't need that money.

Yeah.

Not worth the suffering.

Yeah.

Not to deter guys from ever.

I mean, absolutely, go do it.

And if you live right and put 15 years in the trade and then coast the last five years or whatever, working part time, that's a good retirement still.

Sure.

But understanding have a plan for it.

And something I've heard you kind of coach students on this.

Of you just mentioned like live right.

You're making a bunch of money.

It is easy to spend a lot of money too.

Pretty much from my own, my own mistakes growing up.

I didn't listen to my parents when it came to that.

Go buy a new truck every other year, get into debt, buy this, buy that, who cares?

The bank's got money, I can make payments.

Don't do that.

You watch these guys.

You go to a transmission show up yard, say like a bigger one, 345 line or something.

You see a pile of cars over here on this side of the parking lot.

They're all a bunch of old like beater gas gators paid for, definitely.

Then you look over here and there's a bunch of lifted up, jacked up diesels.

Who do you think's driving?

What?

It's the linemen that are driving the beater cars that they paid a few thousand bucks for.

And then you got the brand new apprentices over here in a hundred thousand dollar truck, you know, married to his job because Damn Truck payments, $1,200 a month.

His insurance is probably $500 a month and then probably putting another thousand dollars in fuel in it, you know, don't do it, you don't need it.

It may look cool, you may look rich, but you don't need it.

Yeah, live.

If you live right, when you get in your 30s, you have a house, family starting, you'll have money, you can just do whatever you want then.

You know,.

If you want to scratch that itch, you can rent most of those things for a weekend and go.

You want to, you Know, go squeal tires on a big truck, go for it but don't own it because I.

Mean, hey, I got lots of toys and that's.

The guys will call me out.

I mean I just bought a brand new side by side again.

But yeah, I pay, you know, a ton of money out of pocket for them and.

But I can afford it.

I tell them like I'm sitting, sitting well in life where this is nothing to me now don't do it in your 20s now because you never know when work's going to dry up too.

I mean try not to bring politics and anything, but I usually always do and I'm sure people are going to laugh at this that know me that watch it.

But you know, there are times when a politician comes in and I'm not going to say what.

Yeah, but work will die off because they put rules in place and then the economy just goes to crap and well now what?

You're sitting on a bread line.

The out of workbooks waiting, waiting for a job call out and who knows that may not even come because just there's no work.

And that happened.

Sure.

And there, there are always potentials for circumstances that no one has any.

Yeah.

You could get hurt.

It could be anything.

Yeah.

Injury, I mean things.

Can you be 25 and healthy one day and.

Yeah, one accident, one fall out of a bucket or.

That's how I tell these guys, like when they get in the trade, doesn't matter.

Grommet, truck driver, operator, apprentice lineman.

When they, when they get out there, save your money.

I mean, live right, but save your money.

Save up 7, 8, 9 months worth of money to have a backup account in your bank because you just never know.

Yeah.

You can't live on a credit card.

There's no point in that.

Yeah.

And just to be clear, you know, we're not offering financial advice.

Yes, I'm the worst.

Like do your.

Do what's best for you, but it is, you walk through life differently when you've got security.

Well, I learned the hard way and now I just, I live comfortably so.

Yeah, but that was through trial and error.

Yeah.

So from just thinking about, you know, this is a, it's not an easy industry to be in.

Was there ever kind of a point besides just, you know, not getting a good breakfast?

Like was there.

What were the.

Either conditions or situations you were in where.

Well, it was kind of pushing you out?

I never, never came close to that.

But there are, I mean like I, I fair or give everybody all the, the kids that come Through a fair warning.

I mean, you're gonna.

You're gonna work with guys that are just miserable.

They're just toxic, miserable sons of bitches.

And, you know, you just ignore them the best you can.

I mean, obviously, if they're your.

Your foreman or your boss, supervisor, whatever, you know, you gotta follow their instruction.

Yeah.

But do it to a point where, all right, I can't take enough anymore.

Maybe snap back at them one day.

That could be all they're looking for too.

They just want to push you and see what you're.

You're capable of.

But you're going to run into the guys where they just, They're.

They're in this just to make apprentices lives hell.

That's because they were probably a really shitty apprentice.

Yeah.

So they think that that's how I should treat apprentices, is the way I was treated.

And to me, that's.

I wish that would just get out of the trade.

There's no point in having that.

I mean, it's a job for one career.

You know, we're not here to, you know, like a college frat house.

Yeah.

We're not playing with people's lives.

I never put up.

I was an older apprentice though, too, so, I mean, I got in the apprenticeship.

I was 28, out of the military, worked a couple factory jobs.

I just.

I never put up with shit.

Sure, I. I'd snap back at anyone I didn't really care.

Like, fire me, send me down the road.

I'll find a new job.

I don't really care.

I'm not here to play games, here to earn money and, you know, retire.

That's what I want to do.

Yeah.

And it.

I can't speak to individual circumstances, but typically when people are.

When they're treating others like that, especially those they have power over, it's rarely anything to do with the person that they're.

No.

No.

Having an issue with.

And it's their own life.

Yeah.

You're either through a divorce or they're, you know, whatever situation is setting them off and, you know, if you.

Their misery just.

They just want to transfer their misery into other people.

Yeah.

They want an easy target.

So if you kind of see gauge your own circumstances, but usually if you set boundaries, people will ease off.

Oh, yeah.

So from a.

You know, I mean, there are, I'm sure, people that were tough to deal with.

Was there anyone that really kind of made a positive impact on your instructors or others?

I mean, there's.

I've worked with tons and tons of, of linemen foreman, operators, they say you get your good with your bad and.

But there's definitely a lot more good people out there that want to see you succeed.

But yeah, there's a lot.

I mean, it's hard to say.

I've worked with hundreds, hundreds of different crews and, you know, I always tried to transfer companies every few years instead of staying at one place just.

Just to go and see different parts of the country in the world and, you know.

Yeah.

Instead of being stuck with one company and their rules and you can go work with somebody else that, you know.

And it's a small trade in the sense that you go on Storm and see a guy down in Key West, Florida, you know, walk him down the street, hey, we got indentured together, right, you know, 12, 13 years ago or whatever, and holy cow, what are you doing down here?

Well, Storm, you know.

Yeah, but it is a small trade.

I mean, your name does carry too.

There's.

There's suspension lists that journeymen get put on for putting apprentices in really bad situations.

And I don't know how to get off that list.

I've never been on that list.

So I try to stay away from that list.

Sure.

But yeah, it does happen to some guys.

Like, they'll have to go do some special training to be able to have the right to have an apprentice back.

You know, to me, if they're doing stuff like that, they should just be pick polar journeyman card and get them out of the trade.

There's no, no point having them.

And I'm sure that'll hurt some people's feelings, but again, I really don't care.

Don't be doing things to apprentices.

I don't want to see anyone die, I mean, or get hurt, you know, that's.

Come to work the way you were and leave, if not better.

That's.

That's.

I always try to tell these guys that same thing out here in the polyard, you know, no cowboy stuff.

I don't want to see anyone taking risks or chances.

Just follow the rules.

That's all we got to do.

And you can go home every night.

Yeah.

So you mentioned kind of moving around, seeing different places.

Where is your favorite place you ended up?

Actually, we were working over by Sparta, Wisconsin and Coon Valley is what it was called, but oh my God, the deer hunting down there.

There's some big bucks.

Yeah, that's buck country for sure there.

But probably the nicest and coolest people.

I mean, it's in Wisconsin, but you would think you're down in the hills in Kentucky, because that's just the way the landscape was.

And the.

They're all awesome people, little local restaurants and diners and they learn your name like that.

You walk in every day for breakfast or lunch, and they knew exactly what you wanted.

They just dish you up your food and.

Yeah, it was good, though.

I like that area.

It's just.

It's pretty country.

So, yeah, awesome.

I mean, been everywhere.

Florida, up and down the East Coast.

Never too much in the middle of the United States.

A few times down in, like, Illinois on storm.

But most time, it's where hurricanes are going.

You're going major storms.

But yeah.

Yeah, makes sense.

So, I mean, with all that, did you ever.

Did you ever have a plan to teach?

No.

Just kind of find you.

It's kind of.

I think I kind of found it.

It found me.

But, yeah, I was running the Hermansville mud dregs over where I live, and I actually stopped into the school to talk to Josh, Kyle, to see if they want to do a sponsorship for payouts and the truck driving school.

Yeah.

And they had a pile of polls there.

It was June, I want to say, maybe June.

And Josh pulled me in his office there and said, yeah, we got a lineman class starting here August 17th.

That's only two months from now.

Whatever.

We need an instructor.

We need somebody to write up the program.

Challenge accepted, I guess.

So I went to work the next week, told my general foreman that, yeah, this is my last week.

I'm dragging up and came here, and it's been a roller coaster ride ever since.

To me, it was a good choice, though.

I mean, I'm home every night, get to see my kids.

It's all I care about, you know, and it's sad.

I get a lot of satisfaction watching these guys go from graduating to this and then moving on, because I keep track of every student that we've ever had.

I got a master list, so I know where they're at, who they're working for, how they're doing.

And they call me and text me constantly.

We keep group chats with every class.

So they ever have questions, they hit me up in the middle of night, no matter what.

I don't even care.

Just be safe out there.

Don't do anything stupid.

But if you have questions, you know, even dealing with certain linemen and Foreman that they've had problems with, call me up.

I don't really care.

I can try to put you in the right direction to help you out, which I've.

I've helped a Few guys out now that got themselves into a little bit of trouble out there.

Yeah.

Even just having a, you know, someone who's kind of gone through it before that can offer some perspective or, you know, if it's something just got to kind of tough out or, you know, another.

No, no, that's.

You shouldn't be dealing with that.

Get out of there before something happens.

So, I mean, I've found that, you know, they say that, you know, mastery is found when you're able to teach something.

So you got the experience doing it, now you're teaching it to others and you kind of have to relearn it in a way that you can teach it to others.

Mean, what have you.

I guess what have you seen, you know, since stepping out and now instructing, you know, just for what you want to see in this industry,.

I guess.

Well, boy, we don't really get too in depth in like technical stuff here.

It's more just all the basics.

But the one thing that drives me nuts and I see it on like TikTok all the time, I follow a couple of these, these famous tiktokers that are linemen and the one guy, I agree with him completely on it.

But say you're on a really busy pole, got three phase with a buck corner, which three phase going a different direction, transfer whatever bunch of stuff up there.

And safety guys pull up and they want you to put up more rubber cover up.

To me, I don't like that because now you're just making trips up and down with a bunch of rubber cover up and you basically just make a rubber tree and you eliminate all two points of contact.

That's taken art out of, you know, working safely, working with your rubber gloves and sleeves.

And I just my go to answer to some of them safety guys that came out and told me that I had to put more rubber cover up on that pole.

And I asked them, well, are you a lineman?

You're a safety guy.

You've never went in the air and worked.

You.

You don't understand how this can actually be more dangerous sometimes by putting all this rubber up, especially on old brittle copper wire.

Yeah, I'm not putting much rubber up on that just because of the weight of it.

And you look at these spans of wire.

I mean there's sleeves and countless issues all over, you know, now you're just going to go up there and throw a couple hundred extra pounds on the wire like so.

Just that extra strain gives more chances that it's going to break or.

Well, you look at Some of take a ride around Escanaba here and look at some of the poles.

My grandpa probably built them when he worked for the city, you know, decades ago.

That's they're still upstanding and working, you know, but they're trying their hardest to replace all this stuff and upgrade the system.

But that's my biggest.

You got outside sources or outside guys that have never been linemen that are trying to tell you how to be a lineman and work in the air safely.

I mean, I get it, like it's a dangerous job and everyone just wants everyone to go home at the end of the night.

But sometimes just, you know, you're causing more work and making it more dangerous with some of these safety rules that they're coming out with for certain things.

I'm sure it had, you know, some of the safety guys that are gonna watch us.

Probably not like that part.

I don't really care.

I mean, yeah, it's, it's the truth of it.

You make our job harder up there.

I mean, we can, we can engineer and, and try to make everything, you know, as safe as possible, but all you're doing is you're taking somebody's mind out of it.

Just slap up all this cover up.

We might as just kill the line and then replace everything dead and, you know, grounded and dead.

But can't always do that because then you're losing customers.

You got customers that are gonna be upset that they're losing their power.

Yeah.

So from just the standpoint of what you saw when you were in the industry and now kind of bringing it to imparting that to students, you've mentioned to me before, of having this drive of wanting to put out quality workers, putting out people, even though we can only really address the basics in the time that they're here.

What does that mean for you in terms of like putting someone out with a quality sort of foundation of education before they go to their apprenticeship?

Biggest thing for me is just getting these guys coming right out of high school that never had a job ever, which to me, that just boggles my mind.

But going from having no work ethic to somewhat of a work ethic, or having a full on hard, hardcore work ethic when they leave here.

That's what we want as linemen out there, especially on the contract inside.

Get these guys, I mean, we want them to be hungry to work and learn and make money and travel.

You know, that's part of it with the contracting side is wanting to travel.

Nobody wants to leave home, nobody wants to Go see the country.

I mean go do it especially while you're young.

But yeah, that's the biggest thing for me is getting guys that can.

Be.

A good ground hand.

They know the material, they know, know basic rigging, they know the knots.

You can give somebody a chainsaw and they can actually walk, walk down the right of way and operate it safely.

Doing some line clearance on the ground after a storm and whatnot.

To me that was a.

One of the scariest things, giving somebody a chainsaw.

Hey, we got to get all this brush and trees cut out here so we can get a, the wire up off the ground and back up in the air and.

Well, I've never ran one before.

Just give it, give it to me, give it to me.

I don't want you cutting your leg off, especially down here.

But.

Right.

Just even operating equipment.

I mean when I went to line school, the only thing we barely got to go in a bucket truck.

We operated a digger.

Digger Derek, just a little bit.

But we run them through backhoe skid steers here.

We can get the Mini X or the dozer, the big excavator, the pulp truck, even just laying timber mats out how to safely do it.

We try to cover all that in that 12 short week window that we have these guys.

And so far it's a good positive response.

I'm still friends with quite a few linemen that work out there and they're getting my students now when they come in as ground truck driver or even indentured apprentices.

And they, they all say the same thing.

They're, they're great hands.

They can actually tell them like, hey, we need to pack this in the truck today.

They'll go to the tool trailer.

They'll, they'll know what they're looking for as far as material, tooling, whatever.

If not, they ask like, you know, so.

But no, it's been, it's a good response so far from most of the guys I know that are still working out there.

Yeah.

What's been the hardest thing to get through to new students?

Following directions.

Just listening and following directions.

I hate repeating myself over and over out there.

And you get some guys that I don't know what's going on in their head or what.

Maybe I gotta start running guys back and forth to, you know, burn some energy off or whatever.

But they, yeah, follow instructions.

Just you know, like last couple days at this brand new class, I tell them I don't want anyone going over six feet off the ground.

And next thing you look up and There's a guy, you know, 20ft in the air on the pole.

It's like, did you hear what I said?

You know, that's what's going to save your life out there, is following instructions.

Especially in the line trade.

You get in there.

Grumman truck driver operator, brand new apprentice lineman, denture lineman.

You have to follow instructions.

I mean, these guys aren't, some of them are going to do stuff to be a dick, like we said, said.

But you know, for the most part they want, they want what's best for you.

But to make their job easier, you got to follow instructions.

Yeah.

Which is not the same as letting them do your thinking for you.

Yeah.

You can't just be a tool that's getting moved back and forth and told what to do.

You still need to be able to understand the context, but understanding that if someone who's coordinating more than you are is telling you to do something, there's probably a reason for it.

Yep.

And to trust their experience in the grander scheme of what's getting done as a team.

And at the same time too though, you gotta, you gotta have guys where can't just tell em what to do all the time.

You gotta let them think for themselves a little bit.

And what I tell em is when you get out there working, you're gonna be up in there, something's gonna happen and you're gonna get.

We call it a Highline buy now.

Now you just gotta figure out how to rig your way out of it.

So just all part of the learning process.

I mean, if we see it on the ground as alignment or up in the air in another bucket as a major issue where the guy could get hurt.

Yeah, we're gonna go in there and help you.

But if we see, we, we are, we can already picture it like in our head, like, what's gonna happen here?

Okay, well, nobody's gonna get hurt.

World's not gonna burn down.

Sure.

How are you gonna fix this?

Let's see what you can do.

And I'm gonna watch you and I'm gonna like coach you through it.

I mean, that's, that's all part of the apprenticeship too, is learning how to think for yourself too.

I mean, you gotta be an adult at some point.

Yeah.

Cause everyone I've talked to in this industry, like, yeah, you'll see things that look a little similar, but every time it's a little bit different.

You're positioned differently, you've got different things that you're working with.

The conditions may be different and you Gotta be able to think on your feet.

Well, that and.

So one thing in the line trade is there's a million ways to skin a cat.

Sure.

Million ways to build a power line.

Is one guy's way more right than the other?

No.

Maybe he's just more used to doing it this way.

But this guy over here is going to think, well, that's not safe at all, just because he's never done it this way.

And you'll see that especially, like between contractor, linemen and utility lineman.

They only know the one way on the utility side because that's how they were brought up.

That's all they've ever seen.

That's all they know.

You get the contractor linemen who are constantly, throughout the year, every year, working with dozens of other different dudes, and they learn different ways and techniques of doing stuff.

And I'm not saying one's right or one's wrong, but that's.

That's another thing I try to tell these guys, too.

When you get out there and start working, like, you're gonna learn how to do something from this guy, and then you're gonna go work with this guy over here and he's gonna call you a moron, an idiot for doing something that you were just doing with this guy.

Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong.

But there are a million different ways to do this out there.

I mean, everyone's gonna have their own approach at things.

So I just try to tell them, like, you know, learn from as many people as you can.

And then when you top out as a lineman and now you're the one that's training apprentices, you do what you think is the safest, most right way.

Yeah.

As long as you're following all the rules of the road and whatnot.

Yeah, yeah.

Do a legal structure and it's going to be safe.

But having different perspectives and ways of approaching something just gives you more and more in your mental toolkit of how to approach a problem.

Absolutely.

So what is just kind of a.

Maybe a closing piece of advice for someone who's considering getting into this industry, or they're kind of in the process and just to try and kind of set them up mentally for success.

Well, I mean, obviously, don't be afraid to get dirty.

Don't be afraid to work.

Don't come into it with an attitude.

I know everything.

Or I'm better than everyone else, because obviously we'll humble you as fast as we possibly can.

I mean, but just be.

Just be hungry, be willing to learn, be willing to travel and I mean just take in every experience you possibly can.

I mean it's, it's all good.

I mean even the bad ones are good.

You can learn, learn a lot from guys that do do a lot of bad things and make it mistakes out there.

You, you know, now you know what, not what not to do.

But I don't know, just be, be hungry.

That's, that's all I ever tell these guys out here.

Be hungry, be willing to learn, be willing to listen and then, and be there.

Show up on time.

That's.

That I should have talked about earlier with the students.

Some of these guys like showing up very last minute and that's one way to really piss your foreman or lineman off.

Sure is.

If you're rolling into that pole or show up yard last second while they're all in the trailer getting dressed and for the day and ready to go and you're coming in last second, don't be that guy.

You won't last long.

They'll send you down the road packing.

So I tell these guys if they're not in here 15 minutes before, for before startup time, they're late every day.

I'll mark them late and they don't like it, but I don't really care.

Right.

Arriving at the start time is being.

Ready at the start time, being ready to go.

Yeah, that's, yeah.

Yeah.

And that, that serves you well in everything.

Yeah, don't, don't be that person rolling in last second.

No.

You mentioned something of you Learning from mistakes is good.

Learning from someone else's mistakes is way better.

So when you see people inevitably make mistakes, learn from them and don't do the same thing and you'll just get the benefit of their experience for free.

Sucks, but it is what it is.

I mean you're going to see some, some bad things out there at times it.

But yeah, keep it in the back of your mind and just, just remember it, you know?

But.

All right.

Thank you for, for making the time.

Thank you for everyone.

Watch.

Listen, see you in the next one.