E{emum} | Getting Hired As A Truck Driver With Multiple Felonies

When I graduated CDL school, I thought, hey, you know, I have a cdl.

I haven't been in trouble in, you know, a couple of years.

This is going to be a walk in the park.

During that job search, I actually got rejected by about 100 companies.

I found that many law abiding people that have been law abiding their whole lives are not working to their potential.

So I found that if I just do a little more than you, I can really set my name apart.

If you really have changed your life and you really are moving forward, people are going to see that and they will give you an opportunity.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest future features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Well, good morning, Matt.

Good morning.

Thanks for being on Built in the Midwest podcast this morning.

I appreciate you reaching out to me to do this.

Yeah, I'm glad to be here.

Yeah, it really meant a lot.

So let's dive right into it.

Talk about who you're with right now and how long you've been there and what you do currently.

Right now I am with Carl's Transport out of Antigo, Wisconsin.

I have been there since December 15th, so I'm right around seven months, maybe let's say six months going on a.

Year here, you know, that we'll round out A year.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

And what I do there is I'm over the road otr.

I drive usually.

I.

Lately I. I'm not dedicated, but I drive to Portland, Oregon mainly, and then come back here and then reset and do it all over again.

And occasionally I find myself in the Midwest, maybe going to Ohio, Indiana and sometimes Florida or Georgia.

Yeah, you know, I just, I think that's so cool because that's something I did many years ago and being able to travel across the country like that and a lot of guys that get out of truck driving school, they don't want to do over the road.

It's not a sought after, you know, position.

So to say what attracted you to that?

Just the freedom to travel.

It beats for me personally, working in a manufacturing plant, putting bolts on things and, you know, it's very mundane.

Whereas I like to travel and I like to see things and I also like to, you know, listen to music and podcasts and, you know, and it's a very independent position.

Yep.

Absolutely.

It's one thing that I always enjoyed is you don't have like that big brother over top of you all the time.

That's just, you know, telling you what to do every minute of every day.

And there is a level of freedom to trucking that I think a lot of people don't recognize that you're not gonna find with like a factory job or even just.

Yeah, the mundane jobs that you have.

I worked at a place called Skilled Manufacturing for a while and talk about beating my head off the wall.

After about six months of that, I'm like, you know, I just, I can't do this anymore.

And some people can, but I just.

I wanted something more.

I wanted a little bit more of an adventure, a challenge.

Right, right.

And just what you and I were talking about, kind of some of the challenges that you've had on the road.

What kind of challenges have you seen over the years?

You know, the last year or so.

Parking.

Parking is.

I've developed.

I've developed a routine that if I'm going to, let's say anywhere that's not along I90 west through north Dakota, parking is hard to find.

So starting my day at 3:00am and then ending my day around 2, 2:30, you know, that gives me about 100% likely chance I can find a spot.

Anything after 5:00 clock these days.

Pm not gonna happen.

You're really pushing it out.

You're gonna be paying out of your pocket, possibly for one of those premium spots.

And those are going up, you know, quite a bit now where they have the paid parking companies where you can get a membership.

Have you heard about them?

Really?

You know, so I've heard about them and I've read some articles and transport topics about them.

But.

But it kind of explained that to me because you know what's weird?

Back in the day, there was no paid parking.

There was no.

It was just truck stops and you had parking.

That's all there was.

And it seems like over the last 10 years that's changed.

Where now you have like.

Yeah, the premium parking, the paid parking.

What does that look like?

So, for example, Parking Club, maybe one of many.

That's the one I see a lot.

So you.

They'll purchase three or four spots from a big truck stop chain and they'll put their signs there and you can subscribe maybe for $99 or something for a month, which is a lot of money because if you're just managing your schedule, you're probably not going to use $99 worth of parking?

No, no.

And then also now you have a new challenge.

You have to find parking club spots,.

Specific truck stops that have parking spots.

Right.

So that might be something that you would, you would search out for if you were in New York City or, you know, but if you're managing your schedule, you probably find the spots, you know, in a regular truck stop, much more budget friendly.

But I will say that those trucks, those spaces seem to get filled, you know, throughout the night.

Yeah.

So now why is there such a shortage of parking out there?

You know, and I saw this 15 years ago, but it's, it, it's like it's not getting any better.

It's gotten a lot worse.

We got a lot more trucks on the road, a lot more trucks on the road than ever before.

And you know, recently, I don't know, I can't get into the politics of why or you know, how we got so many trucks on the road.

But I can tell you that there's a lot more trucks on the road, more than people anticipated.

And people are filling up the spaces in the truck stops quite quickly.

The last few years, I know that there's been a lot of CDL mills and things like that.

I'm not really sure why.

I just know that there's a lot more freight moving.

And I noticed it too, just, you know, even if I wasn't a truck driver, that you can get on some roads and like i65 in Indiana and you've got trucks as long as the eye can see in the right lane and.

Yep, you know, they always got that one that pulls out.

Yeah, oh, exactly.

I can pass that and you go through Chicago, Milwaukee or even Atlanta.

All the exits, entrance ramps, you know what I mean, are just covered in trucks.

They're just full.

So it's one of those things that I think it's, as somebody that drives over the road, you need to think about this because it's a big problem.

At the end of the day you gotta stop.

You're gonna be limited by the time hours you can drive.

You gotta be able to stop, grab some food, grab a shower, everything else.

And so you've kind of, kind of cracked the code a little bit on how to do that.

What does your schedule look like?

So I get up as early as possible and get on my road.

I drive my 11.

I don't run splits, I usually run a straight 11.

So I take my half hour break.

Usually when I wake up, I'm two hours before I start my engine.

And that reason for that is I Drink my coffee.

I've got to go to the bathroom.

I've got to do all this stuff.

And I give my body time to generate the need to go to the bathroom so that I don't have to get in my truck, drive two hours down the road and you know, shut.

Down for 15 minutes and find a truck stop.

Now.

And I think a lot of people don't recognize, like you can't just pull into any gas station or anything.

It's like there's very specific places that you need to stop at.

Right.

And every time that you stop, you, it's extending your day.

And I usually, I have a mark of where I'm gonna get to.

And let's say I have a 28 hour drive.

You know, that I know I'm going through the mountains.

Well, I know that's gonna be longer than 28 hours.

Cause I'm not gonna be going 65 miles an hour fully loaded up mountain passes.

And so I usually think, okay, so I want to drive as many miles in the beginning of this as I can on flat land.

And then if I do get into the mountains, I still want to have extra time.

The two hours or three hours that I have left over that so that I can make it on time.

I want to keep that ahead of me.

I don't want to stop 10 hours into a day and then add an hour at the end.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Because you want that flexibility on the, on the backside, you know, I mean, just in case.

Just in case.

Because there's going to be, there's, there's going to be hang ups and hurdles along the way.

And especially in the summer with the construction.

Oh yeah, that's a huge unpredictable.

But as far as the DOT is concerned, that's predictable.

Yep.

So that's, that's another struggle is, you know, just being able to make it on time with all of the different delays with traffic and construction and weather.

I ended up purchasing a weather app.

Okay.

Subscription.

And I mainly did it for the wind.

Yep.

Because if you're driving across Wyoming or North Dakota.

Insane.

It gives you the gust speed every 15 to 20 miles.

Well, and they close down those roads somewhat regularly because they do.

But they like to say 40,000 gross weight is, you know, close to y.

But they don't like to give you exact wind speeds.

No.

So I was driving through Wyoming and I'm not kidding you, I'm a brand new, you know, driver.

And it looked like a graveyard.

I saw trucks just flat on their sides, you know, like Tons of them.

Yeah.

Sleeping is what they call sleeping.

Yeah.

Just hanging out.

Yeah.

Right.

When I saw that cow tipping anymore, it's truck tipping.

Yeah.

It was literally the day before.

And this is, this is.

It's winter time, like springtime.

And so that's why I decided to get the app, because I just didn't want to be one of those trucks, number one.

But that is out there.

The wind is scary because you can't see it, obviously.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you literally got the app just to know, okay, what are those?

Because it's the gusts that get you.

You get a big gust of wind and you're back there.

And that was one thing.

Anytime I drove across i80, I always wanted to be loaded.

I wanted to be at 75, 80,000 pounds.

You know, it's a heck of a lot harder blowing over a truck at £80,000 than an empty truck at £30,000.

Yeah, well, depending on how you're loaded, too.

Oh, yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

And that's, that's a key thing too, is to take a picture or, you know, know, know how you're loaded before you leave.

Just for that predictability, if you're carrying like tall paper rolls or something like that, you would, you would definitely take it a little more careful.

Absolutely.

And as curvy as it is out there, you know.

Oh, yeah, I know, I know.

Nebraska.

I hit.

My one and only dust storm was in Nebraska.

And I thought I was out of a. I was in a movie because it was like worse than any snowstorm or blizzard that I've been in, but it was a dust storm and I'm like, am I still in America?

Right.

It's amazing.

What are some really kind of interesting things that you've seen on the road that kind of blew you away from what you're used to?

Maybe people throwing out body waste in their truck?

No.

Yeah.

I've seen some pretty crazy stuff that way.

I was telling you about a guy that told me about a guy that couldn't carry a cone in his side box so that he could park in the fuel island as if it was out of order.

Yeah, exactly.

Literally put in, the fuel island is out of order.

Now that's clever.

That's creative.

That's one good way to do it.

Because he didn't want to wake up at 2 o' clock in the morning.

Yeah.

It was his emergency cone.

Yeah.

I think that and the trucks on their side are probably the most craziest.

Oh, yeah.

I've seen quite a bit now where Guys are coming down these mountain passes and their brakes are smoking and you know, just wondering like, you know, who trained them on that?

Because you can smell literally.

Oh my God.

And then you see the burnt brake.

Smell, it almost burns your nostrils.

I mean it's not, it's a smell, you know, right away when you got burnt breaks.

Yeah, I've seen that quite a.

Quite a bit.

A little too much.

Almost, almost waiting that when I get down to the bottom of the hill, their tandems are going to be on fire.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, it's interesting because I've, I've seen a lot of videos of that.

Like, look at this driver and it's just smoke barreling out.

Where, where is the disconnect with some of these drivers and about using their jake brake and being in a low gear, understanding the snubbing brake pedal method.

Why isn't, why don't they know that?

Well, I think honestly it has to do with the finishing.

The schools can only teach a person to safely put the truck down the road and give you like basically a foundation to search for resources yourself.

I know some schools are, you know, they'll give you the fm, sca, FMCSA.

Manual, the little green pocket guy.

And they can't possibly expect you to understand it, but they give you a foundation to find what you would need if you were.

And I think a lot of it has to do with cdl.

Schools can only teach so much and then when you get into.

It's a short amount of time in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah.

So when you get into a company, they'll usually have like our company has a finishing program.

They're not going to just put you in a truck.

And just because you got a CDL doesn't mean you're going to be on your own.

No.

And so for people that don't understand the finishing program, because that's a really important part of when people go through truck driving school and get out of truck driving school.

How does that finishing program work in your experience?

Well, in our company it's usually as long as it takes them to understand that they can put you in a unit by yourself.

Safely.

Safely.

So it usually entails going with a local driver for two to three weeks and then going out on the road, you know, and I won't put a time frame on it because I think it basically comes down to everyone's different.

And if the trainer can confidently say, hey, you know, I think this guy understands the electronic logging device.

He understands how to put the truck down the road safely in mountain situations.

And he uses some pretty good common sense, because I think finishing is also an evaluation period for the company.

And so in my experience, I.

When I see those trucks going down the road with smoke coming out of their brakes, I. I would guess that they didn't have, you know, the finishing training to understand Jake braking.

And you know what I don't.

What I.

What I don't think it is, is mechanical failure that many times.

No, no, it's not.

They say, like, less than 1% of 1% of 1% is actually mechanical failure.

Yeah, 99% plus is always.

It's driver error, unfortunately, because they, like you said, they don't know the proper steps.

And so, you know, there's a lot of professional drivers out there that listen to this podcast because that's what we do.

We drive on the road and we listen to podcasts, and it's awesome.

So if a driver's out there right now and they're, like, maybe a little unsure of going through the mountains, can you explain that to them on the safe and proper way to do that?

So, basically, the heavier you are, the more dangerous you are going down the road down a mountain pass, you see something that says 5 or 6% grade, whether it's on your GPS or on the road sign, you got to slow down.

Basically, you have to stay ahead of controlling the truck.

You don't just have to control it, you have to stay ahead of controlling it.

So, you know, in just a couple of seconds, you could have a speed increase from 5 to 10 miles an hour.

And I can honestly tell you that I'm not even sure that the digital speedometers can keep up instantly with the.

Speed increase, with how fast you can accelerate going down a pass.

Yeah, because on a straightaway going downhill, you can.

You can be on a 4 or 4% grade or something even smaller, and you can get up to 80 miles an hour in, let's say, Utah or Idaho.

And, you know, it happens so fast, and then all of a sudden, now you can't downshift.

You know, you can't.

You only thing you have left in your arsenal is stab breaking.

And because if you, you know, lock your brakes up, you're.

You're going to be in a situation yourself.

Exactly.

And you ride those brakes, and that's.

You're going to end up overheating them.

So what I do is there's a mountain pass in Tennessee, I think it's called now.

I can't think of it.

I'm familiar with that.

Chattanooga.

Yep.

Tennessee and Kentucky.

I don't know why I had no idea there was mountains in Tennessee and Kentucky until I went through and I'm like, wow, they're a lot bigger than I thought.

So when you get up to the top of the pass, there's a chart there and it says if you over this much weight, 70,000 pounds, speed limit's 25 miles an hour.

And that's where I learned.

And so I use that same mentality when I'm going down a hill.

I don't care what truck is confidently passing me at 55 down this pass, they may not have the same weight as me.

No.

They might be empty.

Right.

That changes everything.

Right.

So I, I, I tend to keep my truck in eighth gear, manual transmission and or seventh.

And I tend to ride between 30 and 35 miles an hour, fully loaded down a hill with my flashers on.

And I don't care what happens.

Nope, I don't have to touch my brakes, I don't have to stab brake to slow it down.

It just takes me down the way,.

You know, kind of nice and slow.

Slow as smooth and smooth as fast it is.

But one thing you said there that I think is important is too many people.

And I see this with a lot of new drivers.

They let people behind them influence how they drive.

Right, right.

And I did that as when I first started driving, when I, in fact, when I was even in school, I was so worried about the cars behind me.

And cars do tailgate trucks.

Oh, yeah, non stop.

But truck drivers do it too.

Yeah, absolutely.

They get real experienced and they have a lot of knowledge about what's going on in this pass and they're going down this grade.

And yeah, you're great at it.

And you know what you have.

But me personally, I know what I have.

I'm going to go this fast, I'm going to turn my flashers on and I'm going to make it down this hill.

Absolutely.

And I think that's the best thing is to kind of err on the side of the caution where maybe if you're unsure or unfamiliar like you said, look for the sign, look for the sign that says 6, 7% grade.

All right.

70, 80,000 Pounds.

You need to be at 25 miles an hour, use low gear, have that jake brake on, pay attention to the signs that apply to you specifically, you know, commercial drivers.

Yep.

And our finishing program was very thorough with different terrains and I was able to pick up a lot of information from the trainers, but also have Their phone numbers.

That's huge.

You know where I can.

We have a network of drivers on our own Facebook page.

We can post a comment, we can instant message them and say, hey, have you ever been here?

I'm going to this place.

Does anybody have any information on the dock?

You know, I've called many times to find the entrance, the best approach, and I found that I have a Garmin gps.

I've found a few times now where it didn't take me into a right turn that I could make.

And if, if I could make it, it would be extremely sketchy.

Yeah, exactly.

And then I call another driver and they're like, oh, no, just keep going down another block.

There's a better way to get in there.

And so.

And I think all that comes from being in the finishing program and them explaining to you, hey, if you get in a jam, call.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, I mean, there's some great, I think some really great advice there for people that are looking at getting a cdl, or maybe they're.

They already got a cdl, now they're looking at companies.

Ask that company, like, what, what does that finishing program look like?

Because there's, there's on the job training, no matter what company you go to.

But is it very thorough?

Is it, you know, three weeks or four or six weeks or eight weeks, or is it kind of proficiency based where, hey, we're not gonna let you go on your own until you prove to us that you can do this safely and you can prove that you're proficient and safe about it, you know?

Yep.

And I would say that the better system is the proficiency based.

Yep.

Just because you can check all the boxes, there's unlimited boxes to be.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

So.

And I think that's important for people to realize.

And I tell, you know, my own students that I train, this is like, you know, you come out of truck driving school, you're not going to be a professional driver coming out of truck driving school.

And sometimes I tell them, hey, your learning has just begun because you got to have that foundation.

Right.

And then.

And then that's what the finishing part is, being able to have that foundation, but then to build off that foundation because you're not getting into the trucking industry without a cdl.

You got to have that.

Right.

But that's just a foundation to build off of.

Right.

And understand that there's a lot more learning.

It always scares the heck out of me when I hear from students, oh, yeah, they just threw me the keys and said, go.

Yeah, if that's the case.

You should be extremely sketched out about the company you work for.

You know, they.

They probably might get shut down pretty soon.

Yeah, exactly.

Maybe you should run the other way if you see that.

Like.

No, because it's one of those things.

You don't know what you don't know.

And you know, like you said about mountains and seeing all these guys glazing their breaks, and it's like, did they not.

Were they not taught how to go down a mountain safely?

You know, these things need to be covered.

Yeah.

And the danger is so high.

Oh, yeah.

That, you know, they're not just being reckless.

This is just a lack of information.

Because I don't think if you actually understood the dangers and understood how to go down the path safely, you would intentionally say, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give her today.

Exactly.

Because you fade your brakes completely, you have no brakes.

Right.

And you're screaming down the mountain.

And there's.

I mean, other than a truck escape ramp, which hopefully they were trained on, that they lose their brakes.

Take one of those.

But the vast majority of people that take truck escape ramps, they never should have had to take them in the first place if they were just taught properly on how to go down a mountain pass downgrade safely.

The trucks nowadays, even in the last 15 years, I mean, I don't think you're gonna see very many trucks older than 15 years on the road.

They're all capable of passing or slowing down safely down a grade.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And the Jake brakes, now the engine brakes, are very strong.

They're bulletproof.

They work extremely well.

Brakes are really good.

There's no reason.

There's no reason that we should have as many kind of brake failures going down grades as we do if guys were trained properly.

Well, if you think about it from a reputation standpoint and just a general observation from anyone that isn't in your company, when you see a truck doing that, you make a judgment on that company.

When you see a truck going down the mountain pass, that's in your way and it's going 25, 30 miles an hour.

And is it annoying to you?

Possibly.

Sure.

Okay.

It might be in your waist.

You might have just three minutes to get to your destination over what you have, you know, available.

But you're not going to leave with an impression that that driver's unsafe.

And you will definitely have the impression that these guys, you know, glazing their brakes are unsafe.

Very unsafe.

And I think that doesn't just apply to mountain Passes and it just.

In everyday situations, I'll tell you, when you pay attention to all the cars back up behind you and you're coming off an off ramp, right.

There's a stop sign and the tendency is, you know what?

I am in a manual.

I am, I'm not going to start out, you know, in, in first gear.

I'm going to just roll this stop sign.

Yep.

Right.

So that's what you do.

And all of a sudden you get somebody calling your company and saying, hey, you know this guy just rolling a stop sign or there's a red light camera or whatever.

But you lose nothing by holding this whole lineup.

By coming to a complete stop.

Exactly.

And going forward.

And now you got a red flag.

Now HR or safety is calling you.

But it's worse than that.

It's a cycle, like a snowball effect.

As soon as you get a violation of some kind with the dot, then everybody pays for that, you know.

So now we're getting stopped at way stations now we're now, Absolutely.

And I've, I've heard this with a few, few drivers that are like, wow, this, this company CSA Score sucks.

And DOT just is pulling me in.

Any chance that they can get.

Now talk about that a little bit because I think that's important and that's something a lot of new drivers, they probably don't even know that to look for that.

Okay.

So, yeah, I told you, I drive out west on I90, 94.

You are stopping at almost every single scale on the way there.

That's just the way they do it.

And there's port of entries.

Oh, going into Oregon.

Port of entry in Oregon, port of entry in Washington.

Montana doesn't have a port of entry, but they have a scale house on the beginning and the end.

Yep.

And Wyoming has a port of entry.

Because they want to know what you're doing in their state.

They will ask you to bring your paperwork in.

So I have a clipboard, you know, with my bol on the top of it.

But I have decided to move my annual inspection report, my cab card, my insurance card, my driver's license, all in this.

They like that.

Yeah.

So that when they say bring your paperwork in, they just look at it and you leave and that's it.

And so it just appears organized.

But the side of my truck facing the way station, I know when I'm going to these places.

So when I'm getting fuel, I'm washing my windows, I don't want a bunch of stuff on my dash.

I don't want because that's how they pick you.

If they want to inspect you, they will look at the outside of your truck.

The very first thing is this clean.

And then they can see inside your truck.

Absolutely.

So especially on that camera that takes your picture when you're coming off the.

And do you have a bunch of stuff, like, littered all in your dash and everything?

It's like that.

That doesn't look good.

Yeah.

Maybe they're bored and they just want to pick.

I don't know, but.

And they tend to say it's a random.

Maybe it'd be a seven on.

Every red truck will get pulled in.

But you're better off just to be organized and get out of there.

And then what they really don't like is if you don't come to a complete stop when it says come to a complete stop, and then roll three miles an hour over, you know, the scale, that's what they want you to do.

They don't want you to just follow the truck, you know, and I don't know, maybe it's because they take your picture of it at a complete stop before you get in, or they take.

The picture and that's when the scale is most accurate.

Yeah.

So, yeah, yeah, there's some.

There's some interesting stuff out there, but I think it's important for people to recognize that.

And, you know, a lot of people out there probably have never even heard of a port of entry with some states right now.

So talk about that, because it's been several years since I've been to Oregon, and it's.

It's very different than, I think what people would anticipate.

Well, port of entry, especially with, you know, maybe you got fruits or vegetables or whatever it is, they want to see your paperwork.

So they may have a certain restriction on how that's handled, how much weight can actually be moved, you know, through their state or that specific product might have some kind of recall or anything like that.

They would.

So every truck needs to stop.

Not every truck needs to stop at a port of entry, but that would be what it would be related around.

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't know if you remember, years ago, California used to ask you if you have fruits or vegetables.

Yeah, yeah.

When you went in there.

And there's signs that when you are in that area where a lot of produce comes from that across this line, do not take this item.

You know, and I think the port of entry just regulates, you know, Regulates that.

Yeah.

And I think it's.

It's not necessarily dry van goods.

That they're looking at.

But.

Yeah.

And they don't, they don't tell you why they're looking for that stuff.

But.

But you know, you can read between.

The lines, you know, or maybe, you know, they want to sniff your truck.

Yeah, exactly.

Now I remember with Oregon, they, they wanted a, A written route plan of where you're going in Oregon.

Like how.

What road you're taking in the city you're going to and how you're getting back out.

Do they still require that?

No, no.

Oregon.

Oregon has moved into fuel taxes.

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah.

So when.

When we cross that area, Idaho has a pilot in it called Post Falls and that is recommended to get fuel there because Washington, I mean, I'm not kidding you, you are driving.

There's a pilot within two miles from each other where diesel is up to 60 to 70 cents a gallon more.

And I don't understand how anyone is at that pump.

Why would you.

So literally there's a pilot now, is that Washington.

Washington, and then a pilot in Idaho.

Yeah.

And literally you're paying better part of a dollar more in Washington.

Yes.

Than you are Idaho.

Wow.

So talk about that.

Because I remember being on the road and there was, There was the preferred fuel stations.

Yeah.

And I guess I never really understood that, but it makes sense now.

It's a fuel tax.

Yeah.

That.

That they impose on the diesel there.

And Oregon has a same type of situ situation.

So when you get fuel in Oregon, they ask you to input your license plate number into.

I remember always they said never get fuel in Oregon, Washington or California.

Now if you get fuel in Oregon, you know, once, twice, you know, you're probably good.

But if you, if you continuously are traveling through Oregon now they want to know what you're hauling, how much weight of what you're hauling.

And then you have to.

The ifta.

Oh yeah.

Does not cover their, Their tax program in Oregon.

So you have to.

The international fuel tax agreement doesn't cover their tax.

That.

The irony in that is funny.

Come on.

No.

Yeah.

Because they want you to.

They want you to pay more.

They want their peace.

Yeah.

You know, and.

Yeah.

And not only that, Oregon has way stations that are not even right off the highway.

You have to go to a stoplight, take a right, take another right, go down the road.

And you better because you bypass that.

Yeah.

Guess what?

They're going to come find you.

Yeah.

I never know because PrePass says, you know, follow station road signs.

And then the pre.

Pass in my.

In my windshield says red.

And then the sign says Closed.

So.

No, no.

So, so where, where do you want, what do you want from me?

So you just go, you know, if it says closed, I'm, I'm, I'm going.

Yeah, just, just go.

Just to make sure.

Because at the end of the day it's like they're gonna, they're gonna come track you down.

Yeah.

If, if you bypass that.

You know, it's funny about the fuel thing, and I don't know if I should say this or not, but I talked to a company here recently in Michigan and they're telling the drivers to fuel up in Wisconsin more because Michigan just increased their fuel taxes significantly.

And so now it's like anywhere from 30 to 60 cents a gallon cheaper in Wisconsin now than Michigan.

Have you seen that at all?

No, no, no, it's not.

No.

I know that our company prefers us to get fuel at a specific company.

Yep.

And I don't, I'm not sure how that all works.

Yeah.

But, but they get better, better discounts or whatnot.

But, but it's funny how whatever.

Pilot Flying J loves ta Petrol kwiktrip, whatever you feel at that really, that fuel price is really almost determined by the taxes of that state.

Yep.

And you know, and, and how some companies will be very kind of strict on you on where you fill up or.

And they, you know, probably won't want you to fuel in New York or California or Washington, Oregon.

They say get fuel before you go to that state.

Yeah, yeah.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

And then those states also have significant differences in truck speed versus, you know, four wheeler speed.

Oh yeah.

So you know, Washington is 60 miles an hour, you know, through the whole entire state.

So for trucks.

For trucks and then 70 for cars.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So you kind of just get pinned into the right lane and just, you.

Know, and even though statistically speaking it's proven that that's a lot more dangerous.

I would think so.

Because I get, when they open up to three or four lanes, I get like a sign that says through traffic use left two lanes, you know, and so you'll see like a whole row of trucks that are, you know, in the same lane and they're getting passed, you know, on the right in your blind spot all the time.

Exactly, exactly.

I've, I've seen crash statistics that literally have said that that different speed limits for different vehicles on the road is just.

It's, it's, it's much more dangerous because people aren't.

If everyone's traveling at the same speed, there's a nice flow There, but same thing on I75 down in lower Michigan where you have cars are 75, trucks are 65 and let's be honest, cars are doing about 90 on there.

So you get passed by a car, I mean it's right now and it comes up out of nowhere.

So it's funny how different states, maybe they have different thoughts on that.

Right?

Clearly.

Clearly.

It's bizarre.

So something I wanted to talk about, if you don't mind is, you know, before you got into the trucking industry and kind of your background, could you talk about that and maybe some of the hurdles that you faced getting into the industry?

Yeah.

So I grew up in Wausau, Wisconsin and I got into a lot, a lot of trouble, criminal trouble, a lot of forgery and property crime related based offenses to support drug habits.

And I found that when I got out of prison that I was going to really struggle to find gainful employment.

So I started working in manufacturing, you know, and I just didn't like it.

And I took the leap to go to CDL school.

And when I graduated CDL school I thought, hey, you know, I have a cdl.

I haven't been in trouble in, you know, a couple of years.

This is going to be a walk in the park.

You know, they're going to, I'm going to get a job.

And during that job search, I've.

I actually got rejected by about 100 companies.

Wow.

And so, wow, what would happen is I would get an interview and I would, you know, ace the interview because I had credentials.

I really did change my life.

So I had letters of recommendations from different programs that I volunteered for and I had lots of just extracurricular activities that I was participating in.

But I found that in the trucking industry it had a lot to do with liability.

It had a lot to do with whether or not the people that ran that company could trust that they were putting somebody in charge of their truck with their goods and the safety of the other people on the road, on the line into somebody that has had, had acted so irresponsible in the past.

And so I kind of changed up my job search a little bit.

You know, having a little self awareness and just trying to be understanding of where they were coming from.

How can I express to somebody in an interview that, you know, this is who I am now.

So I started talking to some of the organizations that I volunteered with and I'm lucky to have them write letters that reflected that.

And I also started, instead of applying online and going through the recruiting process I started sending emails to those people directly and explaining as much as I could about the changes that I made and also tried to highlight all of the things that I have handled responsibly.

Excellent.

You know, like I participate in volunteer for an organization that trains service dogs.

It's a big responsibility.

They, they trust you.

You know, with a dog that has, you know, $45,000 worth of training in it and allow you to take it.

That's huge.

Yeah.

And these, these assistance dogs are amazing.

And, you know, I developed a pretty good resume.

I, I approached, you know, companies with that attitude and that, that is how I overcame it.

But I'll tell you something, that no offense to you, no non felony committed people, I found that many law abiding people that have been law abiding their whole lives are not working to their potential.

So I found that if I just do a little more than you, I can really set my name apart.

And I do talk to people that are in prison, you know, and share my story with them.

But one of the things that I really like to highlight to them is you get into a company and you start working hard, immediately people are gonna notice.

You know why?

Because people don't work so hard.

So if you do a good job, you make a name for yourself.

Also, number one tip, don't, don't be better than everyone.

You know, like at the same time that you're working harder than everyone, keep your mouth shut.

And when it comes to like a machine or something like that coming open that you want to get on, you'd be surprised that you're.

Once you're in the door, it no longer matters that you've been convicted of a felon.

You're hired there.

You're hired.

Now the supervisor and his foremen are talking about, I think we should put Matt on that machine, you know, he gets along with everyone, you know, and he'll be, he'll be good at that, you know, and that you're.

Once you get in the door, your actions actually matter, you know, And I think that it may not be because law abiding people are lazy.

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that it is a lot more pressure, I think, for people with criminal records to get into the same level of employment that people with non felonies have because they're starting negative and that's due to their own fault.

I mean, I'm not.

And they have a lot more barriers to overcome.

Yeah.

And they have to prove, you know, one thing in trucking that you have to be able to prove is that you can be trusted.

Yeah.

Because it is such an independent job.

Absolutely.

And you can do that when you're in CDL school.

You know, you can say please and thank you.

You can be polite.

You can get along with the other people in the yard, the shop.

You have to do your best to sell yourself that, hey, you can trust me doing this.

And so, yeah, that's about the most about.

Yeah.

No, I appreciate you sharing that, because I will tell you, we work with a lot of people, and of course, we both know a lot of people with felonies.

And if I add a point to that, I think, you know, I can't speak collectively for everybody, but for a lot of people, you know what?

I think a lot of people did things that they.

When they were younger that they could have went to jail for, went to prison for.

That was a felony.

Right.

And I would say the vast majority of people I talked to, and they were just never caught or never happened, or they were young and they did something dumb.

And it just, you know, so it's one of those things that I think a lot of people out there, a lot more would be in your position if they had gotten caught.

You know what I mean?

And.

Because we all made dumb mistakes and things that.

When we were young.

But I think it's important, like you to realize, hey, you know, it happened.

I'm past that.

I'm a different person now.

And please don't judge me for what happened years and years and years ago.

Yeah.

I.

Accept complete responsibility for the crimes that I've committed, you know, and I don't.

I have never committed anything violent against anybody or, you know, that malicious.

But I have still defrauded people.

I have cost people a lot of money.

So I don't.

I think taking responsibility for that is a big step.

When you're in an interview with somebody and just, you know, instead of.

A lot of resume tips will tell you, you know, our interview tips will say, you know, try to downplay your stuff.

And, you know, and you're like, I'm gonna own it.

I'm gonna own it happened.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna be upfront and honest about it.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I told you I have a lot of other contrasting documents that can show you that I do own this, but this is what I am now.

Exactly.

And if I can prove that to you with.

Because, honestly, no one wants to hear from you.

No, no, no.

They really put a lot of weight into character references and things like that.

If you present it to them, you know, if you do a really good job in your interview and they want to hire you, they want a reason to hire you.

Absolutely.

So those references matter.

Absolutely.

So I think, kind of to summarize that part of it, because there's a lot of people out there.

It's like, it's something crazy, but it's like tens of thousands of people every year get out just in Michigan from incarceration.

And, you know, they're running into the same hurdles and battling the same battles that you battled.

I think first, you know, one thing that you mentioned, the first thing was volunteer.

Get out there and do something for other people and not get paid for it.

And I think that's huge because it changes your thinking.

Like, all of a sudden, you are volunteering.

You're helping out your community.

You're helping out maybe other previously incarcerated people.

Maybe you're doing like you talked about earlier presentations, to build people up and to make that positive difference.

But that volunteering is important.

Then you talk about work ethic, that you know what an opportunity will present itself.

Don't.

Don't take it for granted.

You know what I mean?

Work hard.

Work hard.

You gotta prove yourself.

Right?

And then the third thing you mentioned in this last part is build those relationships.

And I think whether it's truck driving school or anything you get into, we gotta start building some relationships.

Because those letters of recommendation, those character references like you mentioned, I think are imperative to having other people.

If I say I'm a good person, that's.

You gotta take that with a grain of salt.

But if I have some strong people around me that can give me letters of recommendation, well, that's a big deal.

And those letters of recommendation, those character references go a long way.

And then the fourth thing I think you mentioned was how you present yourself.

Right.

Present yourself in such a way where, yeah, you know what?

They can look past all that and say, you know what?

This is somebody that I want on my team that's going to be beneficial for my company.

I think it's.

I think that's.

That's amazing advice to people out there that are listening, that are in that position.

Yeah.

And.

And look at what you've been able.

Able to do.

Yeah, I've done quite a bit.

And one of the things that I also want to say is this isn't a job for somebody that just gets out of prison, that isn't committed to being responsible.

So there's quite a few people I Know, you've mentioned it here before, where they just can't pass a drug test.

Yeah, they live a little bit too irresponsible to pursue this career.

And I think that, you know, it's important for companies to be on guard because there is a.

There is only a handful of people that are leaving in large numbers from prisons that are actually committed to being self aware of other people's rights and, and honestly are done with that lifestyle.

I've seen people, you know, for example, that I've done time with and they see me in a position and they will approach me and they are still, you know, one foot in.

Maybe they go to, you know, other states, you know, Wisconsin marijuana is not legal.

No.

Maybe they may go to Michigan and they just dabble and they continuously.

And then they will turn around and say, hey, can you help me out here?

Get in.

It's like, no, I can't.

And sometimes those guys slip through.

And what upsets me about those guys is they make it very hard for a company to take a chance on because that's what they're doing when they hire you.

They're taking a chance on you that you actually changed.

I mean, let's look at the recidivism rates for its.

Oh, it's asinine.

It's crazy, right?

And they have gone down.

I know.

I'm actually going to Newberry, what, next week, August 5th or something, the Newberry Prison, to talk to a lot of these people.

I get a little presentation there.

There's a lot of.

However many are getting out, getting out here in the next six months.

And so the whole talk is about transitioning to civilian life, but it's still, that recidivism, it's still a lot higher than it should be.

And it just blows me away that people are in prison.

The likelihood of them going back to prison the next 10 years are pretty good.

Yeah.

And those guys sometimes slip through the cracks.

And it's not always in trucking, it's in other jobs too.

And the employer will take a chance and then that person will burn them.

And then it ruins it for the small handful of guys that are really trying to change their life.

So I would say that if you are a felon and you are committed to becoming a truck driver, you can do it just by.

On your own merits.

I mean, people will hire you because if you really have changed your life and you really are moving forward with a family or whatever it is you're moving forward with, people are gonna see that and they will Give you an opportunity.

Yeah, no, I think that's amazing to hear because on one side you said, hey, you know what, I actually don't fault companies for erring on the side of caution when it comes to felons.

But at the other side you said, you know what, hey, once you do your due diligence, if someone's really changed, then, you know, please, it is, it is advantageous to you to give them a chance because they could become, like you said, your hardest worker.

So it's okay to be cautious, but at the same time, don't be over cautious because you could lose out on a great employee at the same time.

So.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I just think that's amazing.

You know, what other characteristics, you know, you talk about trust quite a bit, but what other characteristics would you say are important to somebody being successful in trucking that is maybe, you know, previously incarcerated?

Patience.

You know, a lot of people that are previously incarcerated are impulsive.

Yep.

Stand a reason.

Yeah.

Just developing patience being, you know, you're not going to walk right into a new truck driving job, especially with a felony, with, you know, the best pay rate in trucking.

Yeah.

You're not even get into it with a medium pay rate.

No, no.

But having patience and being aware that, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to start here and I'm going to get some experience.

I'm going to prove to these people that, that they hired me for a good reason.

And I'll also tell you that it's your responsibility to do that.

You know, that as a, if you have a felony and somebody takes a chance on you, whether it's in a personal relationship or a job, make good on that.

You know, they took a risk.

They knowingly took a risk.

It's like they extended an olive branch to you.

And I think that that in itself is a favor.

And so if someone does you a favor and looks out for you, don't work for them for three months and then, you know, quit or you know, don't, you know, because you just ruined.

It for the next guy.

Yeah.

And that's coming down.

Have some patience and let them see how good of a worker you are and let them reward you.

And if after two or three years, or let's just say even a year, just to be, you know, it, if they're not meeting your needs and you've got some experience, go and explain to them, you know, that hey, I got this opportunity and maybe give them a chance now to, you know, once you've.

Proven yourself to maybe, maybe there's another division or maybe you're ready for that next level.

Exactly.

That other, that other independence.

No, I think that's, I think that's huge.

And, you know, I mean, you've really just created a guideline list to be successful for people that were previously incarcerated.

And if people kind of followed that, get into some volunteer organizations, start helping out community, and you can take that volunteer organization, there's going to be connections there that you build that are going to give you character references to be able to apply for those jobs.

And so knowing that, yeah, you're going to have some hurdles to overcome, but clearly you can do it.

And you have to understand that those hurdles are not necessarily a bad thing because that's your bed.

Right.

And they're just erring on the side of caution.

But those hurdles are to make sure that they're getting the right people in and to make sure that, like you said, they're not trying to skate around the rules or, you know, yeah, marijuana's legal in Michigan, but it's illegal federally.

But just dabble in it a little bit.

And then all of a sudden the company's got that on their record, you got that on your record.

And it's like they're mad because they never should have taken a chance on you in the first place.

So don't burn those bridges.

You know, you're creating another victim in a sense, you know, and you're, you're taking someone that did a favor for you because let's face it, if you do have a conviction, you're asking, you're not applying.

Yeah, no, exactly.

You know what I mean?

Exactly.

You're asking them, especially when it comes to trucking, you know, you're asking a company that hold severe liability if you screw up.

Yep.

So, absolutely.

But on the other side, like you said, and I've actually, I've seen this numerous times with previously incarcerated people that, that numerous times, some of the best drivers and companies were felons that were previously incarcerated.

So.

So, like, if there's companies out there listening, some of your best people could be previous felons because one, they got something to prove, Right.

They're gonna work hard because they don't wanna go back to where they were and, you know, do your due diligence, of course, but it could be a phenomenal employee that's willing to stay and be committed to you.

And I think for that reason, you know, it'd be worth giving them a second look and not just throwing that application in the garbage.

Because you see felony on their record, right?

Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

Well, we are coming up on an hour.

I can't believe how fast this went.

This is typically.

I'm like 30 to 40 minutes, and we're just shy of an hour.

So I'll give you the last word.

Is there anything else that you wanted to add before we wrap this up?

I just want to say that thanks for having me.

I appreciated coming here.

I love talking about trucking, to talk about it for days as a driver.

That's brand new.

I enjoy watching your podcast.

Oh, awesome.

I get on the road, you know, and I turn it on and listen to it, even if it's not about trucking.

Yeah, Well, I really appreciate that.

It's, you know, my way.

You know, I've been in this industry a long time, been, you know, did a lot of different things, and I want to be able to give back.

Give back to others and give back some of the knowledge and experience that I have and have guys like you on that.

You have some great experiences, some great knowledge, and I think you're a great inspiration to people out there that maybe are in a dark place, bad place, and say, hey, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

And I appreciate your inspiring words and being willing to be kind of raw and vulnerable.

Can I say one last thing that's important?

Yes.

It's not that I got in trouble once or twice.

Okay.

So when I say that, I'm absolutely one of the worst case scenarios.

I have a lot of felony convictions.

It isn't like I got in trouble on the weekend.

And this is me applying for a job.

And the reason I say that is because I don't want to get anyone the impression that their situation's so bad that they can't apply and be successful.

They can.

So I'll.

I'll end with that.

Well, and with that.

So they're serious.

And then there's Matt.

Matt raises the bar for everybody, and we're gonna.

We're gonna leave it at that.

Well.

Well, thanks.

Thank you again, Matt.