E{emum} | Class A vs. Class B: Which CDL Do You Actually Need?

I want to be home every night.

Should I skip class A?

Just the opposite.

If you want to be home every night, I would go with your class A. I'm 44.

Is anyone going to put me behind the wheel my first year?

Absolutely.

44 Is young.

I drove trucks in the army.

Where should a veteran start as a civilian driver?

Your trucking experience in the military will not help you in the civilian world.

How do you explain this career change to your spouse or kids?

Oh, wow.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Welcome back for part two of Q& A.

We've got a bunch more questions, so I'm just gonna jump in, jump right into.

And once again, I have no idea what RJ's going to ask me, and therefore, I don't even know what I'm going to say yet.

Complete wildcard.

All right, so for people who are comparing class A cdls to class B cdls, if I want to be home every night, should I skip class A?

Absolutely not.

So just the opposite.

If you want to be home every night, I would go with your class A.

And so the.

The reason for that is, and I've seen this numerous times, that say, say you're looking at a road commission or a concrete company delivering concrete or maybe a dump truck operation or even like a 41 lumber delivering lumber, right.

A lot of those trucks are class B trucks.

Right.

But when.

When you go to apply and they have, say, you with a class B or me with a class A, who are they going to hire?

Is class A more appealing?

Absolutely.

That means I'm better trained, I'm more highly trained.

I got a bigger credential.

I'm safer.

All right?

I know what I'm doing.

On a much bigger scale, they're going to hire that a driver all day long.

And so that's why I always encourage students.

And we get a lot of students that go through class B a lot of time.

That's a lot more B2B where that's maybe Cristoil that's sending someone on through or.

Or Ferrell Gas, 41 Lumber, what have you.

But they're going to be driving class B trucks.

And so that business is sending them through just to get the class B.

But from a completely hiring standpoint, if you Got that A, you're going to be a lot more qualified for class B jobs than someone with just a class B because you've driven bigger vehicles, you've driven harder manual transmissions.

You understand more about backing up in tight places with articulation and everything.

So from a hiring standpoint, the amount of jobs that you're going to be eligible for.

All right.

Are going to significantly increase.

Not to mention, if there is competition with those local jobs, which a lot of times there is more competition with local jobs because more guys want local opportunities, you're going to have a much better chance of getting hired with that A as opposed to B.

Because if you're going up against the four people that applied and three of them got Bs and you got the A, there's 100% chance they're going to hire you as opposed to the other three guys.

So not to compare apples and oranges, but is it some sort of similar to someone applying with a bachelor's degree over someone with a.

Like an associate's degree?

Yeah, kind of.

Yeah.

So say the job requires an associate's degree.

Right.

And requires an associate's degree because they want you to be proficient in, you know, word and excel and office administration.

Office administration, good communication skills and everything else.

But that, that person with a bachelor's degree applies and says, well, yeah, I have all that, plus I have all this.

Right, so you have the minimum requirements.

Right.

And do you just barely meet the minimum requirements or it's like, well, I can do significantly more too.

All of a sudden there's opportunity to put more on that person, more responsibility and more things that maybe you didn't even think about before.

But guess what, they're more qualified as well as from a problem solving standpoint, some of the bachelor's degree will probably have better critical thinking, better problem solving, better even like applied math, reading comprehension.

I mean the list goes on and on than someone with just an associate's degree for especially like an office administrator type position that requires a lot of that and a lot of organizations, that person with bachelor's going to get that job every time.

Yeah.

So keeping it kind of centered to the cdl, just for comparison, a class B cdl, at least the way we approach it, is a week long training and that's pretty standard.

Yep.

And then class A is typically four weeks.

So even just the time of new experience, you've got someone who's been instructed for 40 hours versus 160 plus.

Absolutely.

So there is a kind of a deficit there between.

Yeah, what sort of.

Well, the amount of training that's required to get to where you need to be, you know what I mean, to enter the industry.

Because, you know, a lot of your class B vehicles, I'm not going to say it's a big pickup truck, but kind of.

Right.

You know, it's a big vehicles.

A lot of your school buses are class B, but they're, but they're big heavy vehicles.

They have air brakes, they have definitely different stopping distances.

I mean, you have to learn about the air brakes, the stopping distance.

You, you still have to meet all the federal motor carrier safety regulations.

So you still have to know about hours of service and trip planning and map reading and drug and alcohol requirements.

Still gotta have your DOT physical.

You have to know how these things drive down the road.

They're bigger, they're wider, they're taller, everything else, but they're not nearly as big, wide and tall as a class A vehicle.

Which is why there's kind of a massive time difference there.

40 Hours as opposed to 160 hours, you know, which is why somebody with that bigger credential is going to be more sought after.

Not to mention a lot of these companies that are looking for a minimum of a B, they also have A trucks.

Right.

And maybe they have an A driver.

But you coming in there with an A.

Well, yeah, you're full time with this B, but every once in a while we got a pup over here that you got to haul.

So we need that too.

And that's why a lot of road commissions.

The majority of road commission trucks you see around here or Wisconsin Public Works are B trucks.

But they really like to hire guys with A's because they do have a lowboy that they haul around some heavy equipment once in a while.

Right.

Not often.

Right.

Maybe a few times a year.

But if you got that A, that's perfect.

So you could be the guy to be able to do that once in a while too.

So it's just a bigger credential.

It opens up more opportunities.

It's what I encourage if I can.

But ultimately it is the students decision on that.

Yeah.

So taking for example, one of the reasons many people come to us for class B is to become school bus drivers.

Whether they want to do substitute driving or they're trying to get in with the school district as a full time driver.

School doesn't run 12 months a year.

No, there is a stretch where you're not necessarily working.

So if you only need the B to get that job, well, that begs the question.

If you're in a town like ours where we don't have a lot of passenger transport, there's a couple of those jobs, but not much, not a lot.

And I doubt they open up that often.

So if you're in rural Michigan, rural Wisconsin, where it's like, all right, we don't have a lot of passenger vehicle lines, we don't have a bunch of chauffeur services, well, that's not necessarily going to be a good fallback.

And yes, there's private transportation companies, but again, how often are you going to be able to get in there?

Yeah, absolutely.

Having class A could be just an option for you can pick up some work in those downtime, down the months.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So it's something that.

And with S and P, S and P is kind of a different bold ride because even if you have your class A, you still need to test out in a school bus and passenger vehicle.

But having your A and you get your S and P, you're exactly right.

It covers the B and the C. Technically you can drive that school bus and passenger vehicle, but also you got your A to fall back on maybe during the summer, summer season when school's not in session.

And so it does open up more opportunities that way as opposed to just your B, P and S. So yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, that's what we want to do, is set people up for success in the industry, but also if we can give them more value to bring to that company.

That's why we train in a lot of manuals, a lot of non synchronized 10 speeds.

Yes, the industry is going more and more to automatic.

We're seeing automatics becoming very prevalent across the country, but there's still a ton of carriers that run manuals.

And if you go to a carrier with an automatic restriction, and I see it all the time, and they have some manual trucks, they're not gonna hire you because you can't drive manual trucks.

You're not legally allowed to drive manual trucks.

And so because we train in manuals, because we tested manuals, now you can go to any company and say, oh yeah, I have an unrestricted Class A cdl.

Well, that just makes you very valuable compared to other people that may have a class A cdl, but it's restricted to automatics.

And people love to fight about that.

Of, you know, they we've gotten.

I've seen the comments.

So people love have opinions about which I get it.

I felt the frustration in school environments where I was learning something.

I knew That I would never have to apply.

I get it.

It feels like you're wasting your time, like you're being dragged through something that's outdated.

It's not helpful.

I hear that.

But it is one of those skills that one.

I mean there's a restriction that you have without it, so it limits your options.

Why would they have their restriction on there?

I mean think about that.

Why would the SDLA and the federal government put a restriction on your license if it was outd.

I mean.

Yes.

So I mean there's many, clearly there's importance to that.

There's many, many fleets out there that are going to have manual transmissions.

So one, just having your options open.

But it's also one of those skills like you learn the manual and then you drive an automatic.

Like you're going to hop in that no problem.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's not reverse compatible.

You can't just hop in an automatic and like or come from automatic background and then hop in a manual and.

Be like legally you can't do it and physically you're not going to be able to do it.

Right.

Yeah.

So I mean don't worry.

So just don't do it.

And I think, I think, you know.

Yeah, some people say that and I guess what I would say to them is did they learn on a manual in their personal vehicle?

And a lot of them didn't.

A lot of them didn't.

Right.

And I'm going to die on that headstone that you know what, I'm going to die on that hill.

That you will become a much better, safer, more defensive driver if you learn on a manual transmission.

All right, I've seen that personally, I have personal experience with that.

I see that with students you're able to multitask better, you're able to pay attention better, you have more going on.

And yeah, it's very easy to go from a manual to an automatic.

It's nearly impossible to go from an automatic to a non synchronized 10 speed, 13 speed, 18 speed transmission.

Legally you're not going to be able to do it.

Legally it's illegal.

Right.

If you have that automatic restriction.

And two, you're not going to know anything about a non synchronized and non synchronized are totally different than synchronized transmissions.

But regardless, even to the point where my kids I've thought about this I want to get them.

When they come of age, I want to get them a manual vehicle to learn on because they're going to become a much better, more defensive driver.

And so even if you never run manual again, guess what?

I can sleep at night knowing we are putting out better qualified, more defensive drivers on the road because they learned on manual at school.

So that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

Rj, I'm there with you.

I did not learn to drive on a manual, but I did learn to drive stick, but I rode a motorcycle for several years, so it was manual shifting there.

Which.

Different.

Different game, but similar.

You saw the clutch, right?

You have a clutch, clutch and you have a gear.

And it's the same type of thing that you're using different things.

Having to think proactively about what I was doing.

And then also the awareness aspect of, like, I'm much more defensive now.

So even though I haven't read it in, you know, rid one in a decade, it was.

You have to be aware of everything around you because you have none of the defenses of the vehicle.

No, exactly.

It makes you more defensive.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Because I know I've seen the drivers in this town, which, as a note, they're terrible.

They're horrible.

Yeah.

We need a civilian driving school.

Well, you know what's amazing, though, it's not just.

It's not the locals.

A lot of times, you know, you look at the.

This stretch right here from Bay College to what used to be the store is.

I've looked at the MDOTS maps.

It's the busiest stretch in the Upper Peninsula.

Can you believe that?

Busiest stretch in that peninsula is literally this stretch right here because you have two big highways coming in this direction.

You have essentially two highways coming in for this direction, kicking off in Rapid river there.

And so this stretch.

So naturally, people lose their minds when they get into traffic and you have everything going on.

Um, but, you know, it's kind of fun.

It keeps it interesting, especially when we're training.

Yeah.

I don't agree.

I think the out of counters just agitate the locals.

It's all their fault.

Exactly.

Crossing a Walmart parking lot is always an exercise, whether I'm going to leave in a cast or not.

Exactly.

Well, well, because to get from lower Michigan to Wisconsin or vice versa, you need to go through Escanaba.

Escanaba is the central hub that you need to get through to get really anywhere in the up.

You got to go through Escanaba.

Yeah.

So I bring it up because right now it's October 1st today as of this recording.

So we're entering the colder months.

And for whatever reason, even people who have lived here their whole lives, and I'm sure this has gotta be a universal phenomenon in every town.

But that first snowfall, everyone forgets how to drive in snow.

Oh, I love it.

It's my favorite.

You go out at your own peril.

People just blasting through stop signs and no, like not changing their behavior at all.

Nothing.

Yeah, they think their commute time is going to be five minutes and they're like, I'm sticking to it.

I'm not, I'm not changing.

No.

So for someone who's anticipating being a new driver in the wintertime, I mean, what is first?

I mean, what's that like?

I mean, as you, you leave a sedan or SUV or whatever you're used to and you're getting in this much, much bigger, heavier vehicle, I mean, what's going to be different?

And I guess how can someone kind of prepare for that experience?

Absolutely.

I think the biggest thing, the biggest thing is that you drive these big CMVs completely different than you drive your personal vehicle.

Right.

And I see it all the time where students will lean into corners, they'll wait, wait, wait to stop till the last second.

They're not kind of stopping early and then creeping up to where they want to stop.

They are not having a massive following distance.

And so I think that's important.

Just get in the mindset that when you're driving your car, you drive a certain way.

All right?

When you're driving a semi truck, you drive a completely different way.

The three seconds of following distance that you have in your car is nowhere near what you need in a CMV.

So on regular good roads, you need 8 seconds of following distance in a CMV on bad roads.

All right, double that.

Right.

And you know, the other thing is, is slow down.

You might speed regularly in your personal vehicle.

You don't want to do that in a, in a cmv.

One, your cdl.

CDL is going to be at risk.

But two, you're much bigger, you're wider, you're longer.

If you speed around corners, right, you're very top heavy and you can easily roll over a high profile load.

Or say you take that corner when you're going fast, that's when you make mistakes.

And I see that a lot with students.

They come into a corner too fast and they lean in and they take it too sharp.

And all of a sudden we're, we're running over that curb.

And I said, hey, if there was a power pole on that curb, we just took it down, right?

Or if there's grandma sitting on the corner, we just took her out.

Now, as an instructor, I won't let you do that.

I'll pop the brakes and bring the truck to a stop before that happens.

But it's like, that's why we don't come into corners so fast.

That's why when we're following.

Following distance.

I say that a lot of times where you're following distance.

Perfect in a car, atrocious in a semi truck.

All right, back off a little bit.

We need eight seconds.

All right, that's important.

Not to mention, even on right hand turns, left hand turns, this is important.

Where you have a blinking red, we make our stop, and that gap right there could be plenty enough time for your car.

Well, some people don't, don't think about that when they're in a semi, that it's still enough time when it's not and they go to squeeze that gap.

And I was like, you just failed.

What do you mean I failed?

I was like, that guy had to almost come to a stop because you cut him off.

I was like, well, my truck made it.

Well, yeah, but you got 53ft of trailer hanging out behind you.

That gap, plenty of space for your car, not nearly enough space for a semi truck.

And so I think that's really the big thing is when you're driving these big CDL vehicles, you drive them completely different.

And you have to have that extra caution.

You have to be more defensive.

You gotta understand that your stopping distance is gonna increase significantly.

Your following distance has to increase significantly.

The way you make turns, right?

You don't lean into corners, you don't take them too sharp.

You square everything off.

You're watching your tandems every single turn, making sure you know where they're at.

And you're not running anything over that you shouldn't be running over.

So I would say that would be my biggest advice.

And then, so then you throw the adverse weather condition factor into place.

And while everything becomes amplified significantly, where now you have to have an even bigger following distance, right?

You have an even larger stopping distance.

Your corners.

You take a corner too fast in a semi on icy roads, right?

Well, now you have centrifugal force which is going to push you to the outside.

And now you're going to be.

You're going to be pushed to the outside and end up running into somebody or you're going to be blowing through an intersection, you know, you know, stopping early and creeping up to where you want to stop.

The school actually puts on a adverse weather condition training for that reason.

Because here in the UP we get a lot of adverse weather conditions.

There's some roads over by me that'll have hard packed snow and ice on them for four or five months.

Well, you got to know how to drive on that.

And you drive too, you know, slow down is important, but that's also why I think a lot of people come through in the wintertime is to learn how to drive in ice and snow and sleet.

The school stays busy all winter long because people will come up.

We've had people come from Florida and California and Texas and two guys come from Virginia because they wanted to learn how to drive on icy roads and learn from a school that does that.

Well, I mean, there's no better place than the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

Right.

You don't want to be learning it for the first time out on your own.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

And so, you know, in a good adverse weather condition, training really helps and goes a long way just to be able to really identify different predictable things that you may encounter as well as actually just taking your training in an area that has ice and snow that'll be helpful as well.

So a lot of different facets to it.

It's just one of those things.

And if I can put a little plug in there.

The school has a great adverse weather condition online course that they can take as well that is specific to semi trucks and CDL vehicles.

That really helps as well because there's really not too much for courses out there.

And everyone should know how to drive in the ice and snow because in your career you're going to end up doing that.

Yeah.

So something to.

I mean, there's the techniques that you'll need to know.

I mean, just how your vehicle is going to handle differently.

And everything that snow and ice will do to a civilian vehicle, it's just made worse for the most part by the vehicle being heavier, longer.

I mean, like you'll get more traction, but it's also your inertia that's going to be a challenge.

We've all seen the videos of pileups on highways, of whiteout conditions.

And then you see a semi come in and they slam their brakes and the trailer spins out behind them and they clear off the 19 cars.

Exactly.

So something to, I think just to voice.

It's like that natural inclination when you go into a semi for the first time and you're driving These conditions and your instinct is to think that you would have time in your typical driving situation.

Everyone around you is going to assume that too.

No one in the cars next to you is thinking about, oh, that semi is going to take 20 seconds to stop.

Like, no one's thinking about it.

They're not going to give you enough room.

No, they're going to stop in front of you.

They're going to, you know, no blinker is.

I think the.

There's not enough credit given.

And also just emphasis placed on the need for truck drivers and bus drivers and everyone to be patient and aware.

Yeah, absolutely.

Of what's around them because it just can be annoying.

I'm sure, I'm sure there are intersections and spaces you'll drive through where you're just white knuckling it and you're stressed out, but people are oblivious.

So.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you bring up a good point.

There is like, you know, it's not just if you're 100% safe and everything.

Well, that doesn't mean a guy's not gonna cut you off on ice or snow.

Slam on their brakes and you have double the stopping distance as a car.

You're gonna, you're gonna run right through them.

Right.

And there's nothing, there's.

And there's nothing you can do if something like that happens, you know, or go into the ditch.

And so it is important for, for passenger vehicles out there to recognize the dangers of driving around semi trucks and how they can make things a lot safer right.

Out on the road.

Like, for instance, driving in a truck driver's blind spots.

Right.

I hate.

Why do you do that?

Right.

Don't drive, don't drive in a truck driver's blind spots.

I can't see you, right.

And I go to change lanes and I merge into you or something and it's like, oh, you merged into me.

Well, why were you hanging out?

Why are you camping in my blind spot?

Or why are you camping right behind my trailer?

To try to save some gas mileage or something, you know, some fuel mileage.

I don't, I don't understand it.

So, you know, don't.

Don't be cutting semi trucks off and slamming on your brakes.

I mean, you're asking for a death wish.

Because semi trucks have double the stopping distance.

He can't stop as fast as is.

You can stop.

So what do you.

And nowadays all trucks have cameras, right?

So if you cut a semi truck off, slam on your brakes and that truck runs you over, it's your fault.

And I can prove it because I can prove on the camera that you cut me off and slammed on your brakes, that's illegal, you can't do that.

Right.

So I've seen a lot of different cases like that that that driver has been exonerated just by having that camera.

And I can prove that you were in the wrong.

But cars should just be more defensive, pay attention more and give trucks the space that they need for the simple fact that if a car gets in an accident with a truck, truck driver will be fine.

But you know, worry about yourself because it's like chances are you're not walking away from that plain and simple.

Narrower set of circumstances, but the same rules apply.

This is a year round thing.

But for roundabouts or traffic circles, if you're entering in and it's slippery, you might try and just slide through or you might not give yourself time, you're coming off highway speed, you have to suddenly get down to 15 to go through it or 10 miles an hour and there's a bus or a semi about to enter, let them go.

You have to yield to them.

Absolutely, yeah.

If there's, and that's important, I'm glad you brought that up because we still see roundabouts with trucks very common.

And the fact of the matter is if a truck is in a roundabout, that truck has the right of way.

Right.

And a truck does not have the space in a roundabout to be able to not have to take up multiple lanes.

And so when you see that truck straddling multiple lanes in the trailer, they're taking up the whole roundabout and you try to squeeze in there and then that truck sideswipes you and you say, well it hit me.

Well yeah, the truck did hit you, but you weren't legally allowed to be there because you didn't yield to the semi truck.

Right.

And so that's important.

Trucks, buses, plows, you have to yield to them in a roundabout.

If they're in the roundabout.

Right.

Let them go because they need that extra space.

Roundabouts are not made so that a truck can stay in its lane.

It physically cannot stay in its lane.

And the fact matter is if a truck hits you in a roundabout because you try to squeeze to the outside or the inside of them, you're going to be at fault.

Chances are you're going to get a ticket.

So that's important.

If you see a truck in the roundabout, let them go and give them the space that they, they need.

Yeah, absolutely.

So talking some questions for career changers.

So one question was, I'm Coming from a totally different line of work.

Do trucking companies care what I did before?

No.

No, they really don't.

I mean, the fact that you had a job is good.

It's always a Lego.

I mean, you know, when you have massive gaps in your work history, I think that's a red flag for some.

Right?

You know, they want to see that you've had jobs, you are working.

You know, they also like to see a little commitment too, right?

I mean, if you have 15 different jobs in the last four years, well, you know, I certainly wouldn't hire you because that just looks bad, right?

Yeah.

A little commitment, I think is important.

Companies are looking for that.

But also I don't think they really care.

And the fact of the matter is, the majority of students that come through Midwest, I would say they would be in that person's same boat where they were a chef for 20 years or they worked in it for 20 years, or they were a mechanic for 20 years and they were looking for a career change.

That might be the most common type of person that comes to the school is people looking for a career change.

They did the same thing forever, and now they're looking at doing something different.

Lately we've had a handful of people that were working in, I don't know if it was journalism or it or, or different things, but there's been a handful of layoffs on more kind of like, I guess you'd call it white collar work.

And they saw the job board, saw where the jobs lie, and they said, hey, truck industry has some great opportunities.

Let's let me get into this route.

So it's one of those things that, that's very common.

And you know, their trucking companies aren't going to really care.

The fact of the matter is they're going to care that you went to a good, reputable school, that you got your class a cdl and then you got a strong foundation to build off of to get in this industry.

And then of course, you've had your driver's license for a little while too, and a decent clean driving record.

So those are the things they're looking for.

Yeah.

Okay, so I'm 44.

Is anyone going to put me behind the wheel my first year?

Absolutely.

44 Is young.

You should look at this, look at a couple classes ago.

I think the average age was closer to 60.

Excuse me.

But it's funny that he thinks he's old at that age because the average age of a driver right now, this was as of a few months ago.

It was 55 years old.

55 Years old.

It's the average age of the driver on the road right now.

So 44.

You'd be by far significantly one of the younger people on the road in the grand scheme of things, because proportionally speaking, there's just many people older than 55, 65, 75, 85, as there is younger than 55.

So one, you'd be young, all right.

Two, absolutely not an issue at all.

And the fact of the matter is you have some good life experience, you've probably done some different things, you've had maybe a totally different career and you're looking for a career change wouldn't be an issue at all.

And like I said, in some of the classes we've had, we've had a lot of people in their 50s and 60s come through.

You would be one of the younger guys.

Yeah.

Okay.

I drove trucks in the army.

Where should a veteran start as a civilian driver?

So we work with a lot of veterans, and I'm not telling you this, I'm going to take the words out of a lot of the veterans, is that your trucking experience in the military will not help you in the civilian world.

Plain and simple.

It won't help you.

One, you have a lot of automatic trucks in the military.

Two, you don't get a lot of training in the military when it comes to DOT rules and regulations, when it comes to the federal motor carrier safety regulations and all the requirements that are in the civilian world.

And this comes directly from, I think there's four veterans in this class that also have trucking experience in the military.

And they're like, yeah, this is a totally different bowl of ride this.

It doesn't correlate a whole lot.

But what does correlate really well is your GI Bill.

So your GI Bill covers truck driving school.

And you can choose a truck driving school that you pick.

You know, pick a good quality, reputable truck driving school.

Kind of like what we talked about earlier.

You know, do a little, do a little research, be a self advocate that way.

And you know what it could be as, you know, short as a few weeks or a month long program, up to a couple, few month long program, depending on what you're looking for.

But go through a good program.

Get that cdl.

You know, I, of course, you know, always try to, you know, recommend that CDL with no restrictions, manual, you know, non synchronized training with recruiters that come in and depending on what you want to do.

I've seen veterans that love the local work.

If you are.

If you have a wife and kids, which seems to be the case quite often, you know, something more local or regional might be a better fit for you.

But I know there's a veteran in this class that is single and he wants to go over the road.

I think he's going with Warner Enterprises.

Warner has a ton of veterans as a part of it.

They have a great group of veterans that work with them.

They have a lot of veteran leadership there.

And so a lot of veterans love.

If you're doing otr.

Warner Enterprises is a phenomenal company.

So kind of depends on your career goals and everything.

But your GI Bill, your VA benefits will cover it.

Plus you'll get paid to go to school.

And then you're really setting up a solid foundation for this industry.

That would be my advice to that individual.

And there are, whether you want to call it accreditations or there are organizations that you can look for to see if a school has any sort of industry sort of acknowledgement.

Like for.

In our case, we're recognized by the mvaa.

Yep.

So, yeah, so you have like the veteran friendly school.

Right.

So that means they.

They, you know, really have gone above and beyond for veterans, even to the point with hiring veteran instructors to help out with veteran students and specific veteran resources.

So that's really helpful.

You know, we've helped a lot of veterans transition from the military career to a civilian career.

Right.

And especially, you know, having other veterans in the class and veteran instructors, it all helps out because it's a very.

It's a very hard change for a lot of people.

And kind of having a good, support, supportive school that helps you with that transition really goes a long way.

Yeah.

Having a streamlined process to take the.

I mean, dealing with the VA on your behalf.

Absolutely.

Like, as.

As fun as it is, every time you have to, you know, do anything with the va, we, you know, we've done it enough.

Where.

Absolutely.

So when you call, you know, ask any school for that matter, ask for the school certifying official.

The scoff.

They're the ones that specifically deal with veterans, and they can answer all your veteran questions.

How do your benefits work, how to apply?

And if they're good, they're gonna help walk you right through the process.

All right.

To get your designation, get you approved, where It's a very.

It's a very.

They'll make it a very simple process.

So it's not like you gotta do this and do that and do that.

No, no.

That SEO will help you to make it really easy, get you enrolled, get you signed up, and get you on through.

Through and into a program.

Yeah.

All right, so this is.

This is kind of a bigger question that again, it.

Individual circumstances, there's a lot of different ways this answer could go.

But one question is, how do you explain this career change to your spouse or kids?

Oh, wow, Interesting.

Okay, so I. I've.

I've seen this a few times.

At the end of the day.

At the end of the day, I think, you know, kind of going back to this, I'm not that, you know, I should be given relationship advice.

All right?

It's a big question.

But.

But it's, you know, and this goes for any.

Maybe anyone that's not married out there, even if you are married.

Maybe this is good advice too.

But, you know, the most important decision you're ever gonna make in your life is the person that you marry.

And I really do believe that as someone that's been married.

How long has it been?

I shouldn't put myself on the spot here.

Ten years, four kids.

Anyway, as a person that's been married for a long time, all right, it's the most important decision that you're gonna make in your life.

And so, you know, if you're not married, you know, make sure to pick that right person.

That's not something like people that just go get hitched in Vegas.

Like, how long do those relationships last?

And the fact of the matter is, divorce rate is more than 60%.

So it's really not in your.

Statistically Right.

Not in your favor right now.

So make sure you pick the right person.

Don't be settling.

Make sure, you know, right.

Because you don't want to, you know, your kids and everything else.

But regardless, neither here nor they're going to.

Going back to your question, right?

For people that are, maybe you already have a family, right?

Have a family, have a wife and kids.

You know, I think it's important that from a family, there, there's times that you have to make sacrifices, right?

And there's times that your wife has to make a sacrifice.

Time that you have to make a sacrifice.

And if you got kids at home, and maybe that job is the over the road.

Over the road job where we're.

We're out a week, two weeks at a time, right?

So you're making a big sacrifice being on the road.

Well, she's making a big sacrifice taking care of the kids, kind of being a single mom when you're away.

But at the end of the day, can that work?

Absolutely.

I've seen it work and be successful with it right out of school.

This was one student that we had somewhat recently and he was having a baby with his wife, I believe, and he was debating on dropping out of the lineman program.

And I had asked him kind of what his goals and everything.

I was like, well, maybe I'll just get, get a job doing this or a job doing that.

I was like, well, I was like, you're giving up a potentially a six figure job to go do this because you want to be home more for the baby.

I said, what do you think the baby would want?

Right.

You know, I mean, in apprenticeships could be three, four years.

So you can be working on the road for three, four years.

It's a massive sacrifice for you, a massive sacrifice for her.

But what's going to set up your family for success for long term, right?

As it's staying in the lineman program, getting through your apprenticeship and then you can come back and work locally and do some great stuff.

And I said, if I were you, like, you know what, it's about the sacrifice.

And if you married the right woman, she would understand that that sacrifice is for the long term.

Right.

You know, that a short few year sacrifice to set me up for success for the next decade or two decades or three decades, that's a small investment in the grand scheme of things.

Right.

But it's one of those, it's one of those things where everybody is different and I forget what he ended up doing.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna follow up with him,.

You know, but I believe I know who you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah.

And so, and like, and everyone's goals are different.

And you know what, there's, there's different paths for everybody.

Right.

And so, you know, but, but what I don't want is, you know, especially as I get older and if I've made a lot of mistakes in my past, that if I can give some kind of golden nuggets to young people to kind of help set them up for success and not have to make the same mistakes or, or have some of those regrets.

Right.

Because three years will go by like that.

I mean, it really does.

And let's be honest, I don't think any of my kids remember what happened before they were three years old.

So if there was a time to be on the road, probably a good time.

Yeah.

It's one of those decisions where, I mean, it's kind of an impossible choice no matter what.

You are losing and gaining something.

Yes, you are.

And it comes down to ultimately, I Think communication, you and your partner.

If the goal is to spend your life with someone, then you got to make sure that it's not just you making that choice.

If you're like, I'm willing to.

I am willing to make this sacrifice for us and be like, I'm going to dip out and live in New.

Orleans, they're making a huge sacrifice, too.

Tremendous.

It's huge.

And so you're exactly right.

Kind of being on the same page.

And maybe that is not what you guys decide.

Right.

Maybe you say like, no, this is just too much.

It's not the right time.

Too much, it's not the right time.

Everything else.

So, yeah, but I think you're exactly right that communication with your spouse is important and to see if it's the right move.

And I think you do have to outline all the positives on one side, all the negatives on the other, as well, as, is this a means to an end?

Right.

Or if you're just trying to get in the trucking industry and you got a local job lined up, that should be a pretty easy conversation.

I'm looking at a career change.

This is going to be a better fit.

Maybe I'm working in fast food or working in retail.

This is going to be a better fit for our family, and I'm going to be able to double our wage and support my family better.

I think any spouse is going to understand that and probably want that.

And guess what?

I'm probably going to.

I might even have a better schedule, you know, over here I'm working nights and weekends and after hours, I might be able to get an 8 to 5 trucking job that gets me home every night and on weekends.

This might be a much better fit.

So it's about how you sell it.

Right.

And put the pros and cons in there.

But, you know, it's one of those.

It's one of those things that communication with one another is really important as well as those kind of expectations for each other.

You know, it's.

It's.

It's tough.

Relationships are tough.

All right.

Yeah.

I don't recommend.

It's the matter of when you're making decisions that impact your whole life.

There's.

There's so many factors to consider, and I think, at least from my own part, having been at different points, that felt like kind of an impasse where I had to, you know, a fork in the road, if you will.

Of like, absolutely.

You know, either I'm going to do this thing or I'm not.

And most of the time.

Even if you like, no matter what, there's going to be something about it that sucks.

Absolutely.

There's going to be pain and struggle regardless.

There will be stress.

And when it's a financially motivated thing, kind of getting into what is it that you actually want.

And does going down one fork get you more of what you want?

Bigger picture?

Yeah, absolutely.

On an average day, not once in a while is like, will this give you the life you're looking for?

Or is it a point to reevaluate?

And you're like, you know what?

I thought I wanted to go make money as alignment and make this big check that I kind of got seduced by.

And then you realize, like, you know what?

I would actually really rather work 40 hours a week and be home every day to pick up my kid from school.

And that's what he wants.

And there's no shame in that.

No, no, not absolutely.

Not Absolutely none.

And that you are a better fit for you, but kind of knowing what you want and knowing what you want and what's best for the family and having that communication and talk about it, talk about it.

At the end of the day, you each have kind of goals and dreams or things that you want to do and you're trying to take care of each other, take care of the family.

There's so many different balancing acts that you're balancing.

This is just one other thing to balance and make sure everyone's on the same page.

But I certainly wouldn't just sign up and shove it down your spouse's throat, you know, have that communication beforehand.

Because trucking can be a tough industry for relationships and especially otr.

Especially otr.

So the local and regional, not so much.

But, you know, making sure.

Making sure the family is on the same page and kind of what this sacrifice looks like to set everyone up for success.

I want to go to a little bit of a more.

A less fun aspect of this that I don't want to move past it because it's something that people need to just kind of.

It should be discussed more.

So this is a fun part of the segment.

Perfect.

Yeah.

With that, there's.

And I don't want to cast this into sort of gender norms like lots of women enter trucking.

We are speaking from the experience of two men.

So that's.

I don't want to speak from the experience of a woman because I haven't lived it for men.

There are a lot of statistics that kind of tap into this.

But for those.

If you are making a decision like what we were just talking about and you decide that, you know what, we're on board.

I'm going to make this sacrifice for the better good of our family long term.

Yep.

And you were kind of taking it on yourself, like, great, I'm going to go do this career so that I can provide at.

Even though I would really like to be home.

I would like to be with my partner, my spouse, my kids or, you know, with my friends, with my family, with.

Absolutely, you know, with what I'm used to.

And you are giving that up to be able to provide.

There are a lot of people that make that choice with the best of intentions, I mean, very noble intentions.

And they might do it for a long time and eventually it becomes too much and they're too afraid to change it and they make poor choices.

And I mean one of like there are a lot of statistics in this industry, in all the industries we're associated with, in, in men in general, there is a higher suicide rate than.

And it's this, you know, one.

I mean, if you're in that sort of statement, like, this is just never going to end.

The bills are never going to stop.

I have to keep doing this even though I'm miserable.

Don't let the money be the only thing.

You deciding it to be a sacrifice.

And then it's just.

Your life is only sacrifice.

It can't be just that.

It can't be just that.

There's gotta be some internal happiness and some.

You gotta fill your own cup.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

You know, it's one of those things where, you know, we live in a free country and part of that is your pursuit of happiness.

Right.

And so understand kind of what makes you happy and what do you like to do and maybe trying to align maybe one of your passions with how can I make money and make an earning a living with that passion.

And so, and I will tell you, I see that once in a while too, where a lot of guys get, get in this industry, guys and gals, I think we have two females in this class actually, and they're doing great.

But a lot of guys and gals get in this industry and they love it.

And maybe they start OTR and then they have families so they get more local and they're doing great and they're staying in this industry.

Or like myself coming through the school, right, Driving for a while, working in hr, working in safety, working in maintenance and instructing here at the school.

Like, you know, I'm still in this industry, right.

Still enjoying what I do.

And then you get other people once in a while that get in this industry and just find out that it's too much or it's not for them, or they just don't like it and they hate it.

That's okay.

That's okay.

Pivot.

Do something else, right?

At the end of the day, it's not that big of an investment, right?

Where you're completely upside down.

I knew a person here, this is actually somewhat recently, she graduated from law school, has over $200,000 in student debt, right?

And you know what?

She just decided she doesn't want to be a lawyer.

I'm not kidding.

I'm like, oh, my.

You know, so guess what?

It could be significantly worse, right?

Imagine going to school for seven years, all right?

And going through law school, you know, getting your undergraduate and then deciding, no, I actually don't want to be a lawyer.

Like, oh, yeah, now that's a big change here.

Hey, you know what?

You went to school for a month and you drove for a year, and you decided, actually, you know what this industry is for me, and that's okay.

I mean, I think the average person changes careers four or five times throughout their life, and that's all right.

Or maybe it's a different aspect of this industry that is a better fit for you, but that's okay.

You know, that's the beauty about this industry is there is a lot of flexibility.

There's a lot of other things you can do.

But don't kid yourself, all right?

Some of the jobs that you hated, or maybe I can speak for myself, some of the jobs I hated, I really didn't like.

If I can go back, I would do them again.

I would do them again for the simple fact that the skill sets and the things that I learned in those jobs, all right, were so fantastic that I utilized them every single day.

Right.

I didn't like the job.

I hated the job.

But I loved what I learned.

And so sometimes it's the jobs that you hate potentially sets you up for success for other jobs in the future.

So don't look at a terrible job as a negative.

It could be the best positive of your life once you leave that job, but you utilize those skill sets that you learned in that job for the next thing that you do enjoy.

So just my two cents.

A job you hate actively is something that will likely be better for you than something that you can just tolerate.

Yeah.

Like, if you're just like, I don't love it, but it's fine.

You'll stay There forever.

If it's meeting your basic needs and you're like, I don't have to work that hard.

The people are right.

If you hate, I'm getting out of here.

It's gonna motivate you, right?

It's a motivating factor.

I, you know, and I think back to some of the, some of the professors I had in college and think about it too.

Like, I had some really hard professors.

One in specific, you know, that literally on the first day of class, he's an older guy and he looks around and he's like, too many people in this class.

And he literally said that.

And he's like, I want a 10 page paper.

This was on Monday, I want a 10 page paper every Wednesday on such and such topic.

And this was at the end of class, class dismissed.

And sure enough, come Wednesday, right, we all hand in our papers, he takes them, throws them in the trash and he's like, well, it's a good way to get rid of.

It was like 12 people.

Good way to get rid of 12 people.

And it was a, it was a foreigner level business class.

And I was like, what the hell?

Like, what kind of guy is this?

Why would he do that?

And this was before AI, mind you.

All right?

Before AI, before there, I mean, all you had was Google and the library.

So, you know, it was.

But anyway, he just wanted to lean out, right.

A good chunk of the class.

And he did, right?

He's like, you know, but at the end of the day, I look at that experience and that, that professor and he taught me a lot.

And I appreciate how hard he was on you because he wanted you to learn more.

And so anyway, it was, even though I didn't like him, right.

He taught me a lot.

And so what, it wasn't negative.

It was, it was great actually.

You know, and some of the teachers I really did like that were maybe more laxatives and everything else.

I didn't learn a lot from them.

So.

Yeah, I mean, there's something to be said for your challenges are what, force you to grow.

Absolutely.

And when you have someone who's challenging you or you know, forcing you into something that is not comfortable is forcing you to adapt, which is, I mean, that's the basis for building muscle, for building strength, for building capability, which is.

In order to build muscle, you gotta break muscle.

Exactly.

And everything that you, every step that you take in the path to getting where you want to go is just you're building links that eventually make you into someone who's capable of doing more than what you could before.

And it's just each experience builds a little bit.

A little bit every time.

Yeah, every time is so true.

So I think that is a good place to wrap up.

We covered a lot of ground, so thank you for everyone who watched, listened.

We will see you in the next one,.

Ra.