E{emum} | CDL Endorsements Explained: Hazmat, Tanker, Doubles & Triples, Passenger, School Bus

Nothing happened for a second.

And then all of a sudden it was like a two by four.

Wham.

Got hit, right.

I was like, holy jeez.

And I'm like.

And the whole truck and trailer surged forward.

Concrete still liquid form when it's in there being hauled somewhere.

Cement truck has to come into a hard brake, spill concrete out the front.

Just know after you, after you pass that DMV test, doesn't mean you're a professional taker.

It's.

It's a.

The learning is just beginning.

At the end of the day, the more endorsements you have, the more.

The more opportunities are going to open themselves up.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Good morning, Billy.

Morning.

How are you doing this morning?

Fantastic.

Terrific.

Another beautiful day here in the Upper Peninsula.

Absolutely.

So I was just reading.

All right.

That school's going back in three weeks and our summer's almost over, so.

Yeah, it's been a quick one.

It's always a quick one.

It's like you get like two months up here, two months of summer.

Kind of been a warm one.

It has, it has.

Yeah.

No, we had that.

We never see 100 degree weather and we actually saw a couple weeks of that, which was.

Which was crazy, but which is actually kind of nice.

Nice to see once in a while because, you know, give it a few months and it's going to be negative 20 and we're going to be in the overalls and car hearts and some.

Of us thrive better.

That's true.

That's true.

That's why we love the north, right?

Absolutely.

It's cooler.

It's just cooler.

All.

All across, all aspects.

All right, so today we want to talk about endorsements.

It's something that we get questions a lot from students, from people.

Should I get endorsements?

What endorsements should I give?

Which ones are most valuable, Are there?

What are the testing requirements for those?

Endorsem.

And you've done a lot of different things kind of throughout the years.

I figured you'd be a great person to talk to on this.

So first of all, let's kick it off.

All right, so the endorsements that you can get, and I know I'm off the top of my head, but I am going to read them just to make sure I got the accurate stuff here we have the T endorsement, which is your doubles triples, the P endorsement, passenger vehicle and tanker endorsement.

H, the hazard materials endorsement.

Better regard as hazmat, the X endorsement, which is your tinker and your hazmat and your S endorsement, which is your school bus.

So let's start off right at the top here with the T endorsement.

Doubles.

Doubles.

Triples.

Yeah, double triples.

Talk to me about that.

And I know you and I both know several students that are doing.

Yep, that's a good one to get.

Depending on where you're going.

Got.

But being in Michigan, heavy Hall State, we pull a lot of trains.

Heavy trains.

Look at Cisco.

Pulls doubles.

UPS pulls doubles.

All depends on where you're going, what your plan is.

I highly recommend getting that endorsement because you never know where you're going to end up.

Might be a new guy or coming out of school.

You're going to go somewhere, get your experience.

Five years down the road, you might end up somewhere hauling gravel for a local company or wherever.

Absolutely.

I think about it like doubles.

I see doubles every single day all over the place.

Now from a regulatory standpoint, Michigan, Wisconsin and a lot of other states for that matter don't allow triples.

Right.

Which we can talk about triples in a second here.

But they allow doubles.

And so you see a lot of.

Whether it's K. Graham, I know we have some students going for them.

And those are B trained double flatbeds.

You look at.

If you ever get up in the Marquette area, you have MJ Van Dam up there.

All right, same thing, but different.

B train, double side dump.

Dump trucks.

Those are pretty popular.

And then of course you look at UPS, FedEx, Reinhardt Foods, Cisco, that's just off the top of my head.

There's a lot of doubles opportunities out there.

See a lot of doubles come through town every day.

North Fork out of Manistique, Orange doubles.

Back and forth, back and forth.

Lime.

Yeah.

So what would you say from a safety standpoint?

That you got to be more cognizant about Holland doubles.

Absolutely.

Slow down, take your time, know how to load them, load them properly.

They have a.

Some of they get a nickname called the wiggle wagons.

Yeah, the wiggle wagons.

Starts to get away, slow down, get it back under control.

But a lot of times that's caused by improper load.

Fifth wheel wear, certain suspension wear can cause that.

The biggest thing is loading that pup wrong.

Create that wiggle.

Sure, absolutely.

I know one thing that we, we talk about is that rearward amplification which simply Means you make a.

A small movement of your steering wheel.

It could be just a few inches, but it amplifies all the way down to the back of the trailer, where that could be 2, 3ft.

And another good example.

So I was talking to one of my arborist friends about this, and when you put a wedge in a tree, even though that wedge might be just a half inch on the bottom of that tree, the top of that tree can move five feet.

You know, the same type of thing because of the length.

So, you know, that's.

That's one thing for individuals that are thinking about getting into it, that, you know, you have to be defensive no matter what cmv you're driving, but you add, you know, one or two or three trailers behind, it's.

You're gonna have a lot more rear amplification, a lot more likely that you could roll over taking corners too fast.

And also, you know, never to.

To jerk.

To jerk that wheel or make an aggressive moment of your steering wheel.

I like to tell a story to the students about when I was first training here at the school, and we're out in Perrinville, and, you know, we live in the up, a lot of deer all over the place.

And this deer comes out, and before I could say anything, the student jerks the wheel, right?

And.

And I'm leaning over, and I grab the steering wheel, and I bring it back onto the road, and.

And the students are flopping around in the back.

And I'm like, oh, my goodness.

I was like, what are you doing?

And he's like, well, what'd you want me to do, hit the deer?

And I'm like, yeah, yes, absolutely.

And I'm like, because if we were fully loaded, right?

Fully loaded, and now you have all that top heaviness, we probably would end up rolling over in the ditch somewhere, and one of us could have been hurt and everything else.

And so it was a good learning experience to him that, no, we never jerk that steering wheel.

We never make an aggressive movement of our steering wheel because it's not the truck you got to worry about, but it's that rearward amplification all the way back that could cause it to roll over and cause massive issues.

So I tell that students, to all the story, to all the students, say, hey, if we encounter a deer, you know what I mean?

Yeah, you can hit your brakes a little bit, slow down, But.

But don't jerk that steering wheel because you could lose control.

And not to mention, when he jerked it.

Guess where he jerked it to oncoming Traffic jerked into the left lane.

Now, thank God there was no oncoming traffic coming.

But I'm like.

But I'm like a real life situation.

All right?

And we're.

We're training on public roads.

I mean, that could have been really dangerous.

And so it's a.

It's a.

It's an aspect that we teach in our training.

Like, yeah, don't jerk that steering wheel and never, ever, you know, jerk.

That's your.

In oncoming traffic.

Because, you know, because what you're saying there is that that deer's life is more important than your own or somebody else's.

Or somebody else's.

Exactly.

And it's like, absolutely not.

And so.

And honestly, being in the up here, I love venison.

So if a deer ever does come out, if we can aim for a headshot, I'll get the back straps, and then her loins still be delicious.

All right.

You know, winter.

Winter venison dinner.

We do love our venison.

Up next, neck of woods.

Just like those guys that came from Florida here.

They love venison too.

They said the deer are much smaller down there, though.

They're.

They're like.

They're like dogs, right?

You don't get as much meat off them.

You got.

They still like them.

Well, what do you say?

He's like.

He's like, dang, they look like horses up here.

And I was like, yeah, those are our white tailed deer.

You know, we got some good hunting up here.

What can I say?

But you know, and with triples now.

No, triples is another level.

And I believe this is still a rule with LCV requirements, long combination vehicle requirements, that you need a minimum of six months of experience to be able to drive an lcv.

Like triples.

But the really only place I've seen them on a regular basis is like the Ohio Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Correct.

That's where I've seen most of that travel.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's.

It's not something show.

Triples.

Triples.

You know, I've traveled all over the country and I. Ohio, Pennsylvania Turnpike, that's where I see them.

So I wonder if there's something with that.

But I know there are, you know, doubles all over the place.

You know, doubles are very, very common.

Good endorsement to have.

But also it's important to know kind of that setup, what that looks like, because I know, you know, B train doubles is a lot different than a train double doubles, depending on stability.

You know, you're talking about gravel trains, right?

Those are really, really common.

Even how you back those up.

There's a lot that goes into it.

How do you back up doubles?

Effectively.

Backing up a set of doubles.

You pin.

Got your pin lock.

Lock the lock, your dolly.

You want to go.

You got to throw away everything you know about backing up and you're backing up a set of doubles.

Yeah.

Cuz now if I want the rear trailer to go right, I turn right.

Because it's pivoting twice to get back there.

You have to go back, go slow, take your time.

Takes a long time for somebody good to back up a set of doubles.

Yeah.

But you can do it.

Absolutely.

Sea time.

Yeah.

Hone your craft.

But.

But I.

You don't see that very often.

You know, even when guys, I'm thinking of Levi.

If he's listening, shout to Levi.

How you doing?

He's over at K Graham and he hauls doubles all the time.

A lot of steel coils and wood and different things.

And.

And I always see him pull in and pull out.

He always has an exit.

He never pulls into a place and has to.

That I've seen and has to back up.

He always, you know, looks far enough in advance where he can pull in and pull out because it's just, you know, it makes your job easier.

Right.

Why.

Why make your job harder?

That's something you have to do as a driver.

Pulling a set of doubles like that is prepare for my exit.

Yeah.

You're not going to pull in somewhere and all I got to try to back out of situation.

You're going to plan ahead, look ahead.

Absolutely.

You know, the other thing that I think a lot of people don't realize is, is you're so much longer too.

Right.

So you have rear amplification, you have.

You have all these things going on that you got to be cognizant about.

But also you're 80, 90ft long.

I mean some of those B train doubles are.

Are massive.

And so, you know, outage is a big one with like railroad tracks where, you know, you're coming up to a traffic light, but there's a railroad track maybe a little bit before it.

Do you have enough space to get your vehicle across or is part of that truck or trailer going to be still on the railroad tracks?

And so understanding, kind of looking far in advance and, and I think that's a good rule of thumb for all CDL drivers that you know what, you're not driving your personal vehicle.

You gotta be well aware of your surroundings.

Absolutely.

You gotta be looking significantly further in front of you than you normally would because you have a, you're a much bigger vehicle.

You have a much bigger stopping distance.

There's a lot more things going on in a cmv.

But yeah, anything else with doubles.

Pretty well.

We're moving right along.

We're good.

All right.

The passenger.

The passenger endorsement.

So.

So this one's kind of interesting because every school bus is a passenger vehicle, but not every passenger vehicle is a school bus, which is interesting.

So if we're thinking about just the P endorsement now going back to doubles, triples real quick.

So remember, that one's just a written test at your dmv.

So dmv, bmv, dot, Secretary of State, whatever your state calls it.

Because states like to be different that way.

It's just a written test at the Secretary of State.

And we'll put some links down below as well because this school has some great online courses for this stuff too, too, if people are interested.

But yes, just to just.

I believe it's like 30 questions test at the Secretary of State, the DMV and you can get that endorsement on your CDL.

P passenger is a little bit different.

So passenger by definition is just any passenger vehicle that transports 16 or more passengers.

So that would include all your, you know, data buses and coach buses and school buses for that matter and everything.

Where have you seen stuff like that?

Just the P Endorsement buses.

The P endorsement.

Your Indian Trails bus lines.

Oh, yeah, things like that.

People that tour bus.

Tour buses.

You know, it makes me think of.

You ever travel on one of those Indian Trails buses?

Yeah, the coach buses out.

It's an experience.

I feel like, you know me, I'm all about the experiences.

Right.

I'd like to, I like to really try everything once.

Right.

Some people say that.

No, I, I seek out those experiences.

I will tell you, for people that don't have, you know, good transportation, you know, over long distances, they are great.

But a.

In my experience, a six hour trip will take you 16 hours because you're like a pinball on the way, stopping at every single city.

And then you're stopping, dropping people up.

And then eventually you get to your destination and you have.

And you see all sorts of interesting people on those buses too.

There really is.

I made good friends with a couple of parolees that were just getting out of prison.

Right.

Didn't have transportation and we were BSing in the back of the bus and we were just having oodles of fun, you know that.

So I made some new friends out of it.

Honestly, I feel like I should do that again here so if you need to make some new friends, I guess that's my advice.

Take a bus ride.

All right.

When you're on a bus for 6, 15 hours, you get to know someone pretty well.

Absolutely.

All right.

There's no doubt about it.

Oh, kind of interesting.

But it makes me laugh.

When I live down in Lansing as well.

They have the Cata buses down there.

And so those are not just passenger buses, but those are class A passenger buses because they're articulating buses and, and those dry there.

Some of those drivers down there are terrible.

Absolutely horrible.

Like, I was sick numerous times getting off those buses.

Yes.

So if anyone is listening, if you could back off on throttle a little bit, a little less, I mean, they would, they would put you through the windshield.

I'm not even kidding.

Like, no, it's in Detroit.

I didn't realize that was considered a class A. Yeah.

Because it's an articulating class A bus, so.

Because it's like, it's like the second part of the bus is a, is a, is a trailer, essentially, it's another bus that they're pulling.

Right.

But you know, what's interesting is, though, and a lot of those were all essentially like cabovers, like diesel pushers, you know, and they make really tight turns, but they're going right into, you know, Michigan State campus, right in downtown Lansing.

I mean, they got some really tight areas there.

But that's what I, that's what I wrote every single day.

I mean, that's, you know, places like that, it was, it was faster to take that, you know, the local bus like that than.

Than really drive a lot of places.

Yeah.

Find somewhere to park.

And I mean, that, that was something especially living, living in the U.P.

I think we're kind of secluded to some of that stuff.

I remember going out to Buffalo Wild Wings right.

In East Lansing, and I had to pay to park.

I'm like, I'm going to your restaurant and you're charging me to park.

And so clearly I'm not as worldly as I thought I was.

And the guy's like, yeah, it's pretty normal.

You want to go anywhere around here, you're going to pay to park.

And it's like, okay, so you'd probably.

Be better off using public transit.

Well, yeah, exactly.

So at that point, you just take the, take the bus.

And those, those buses are, um, they, they stay out late and.

But it's not like the bus around here where you call and they'll come pick you up.

They have designated bus stops, designated Bus routes.

And, you know, I felt like I was back in, you know, grade school or waiting at a bus stop with nine other people.

Potentially stand there for 20, 25 minutes.

Oh, yeah, you would.

Yeah.

And sometimes, you know, depending on the schedule, you would just miss it and you'd see it driving past.

I'm like, oh, now.

And so you'd have to wait another 30 minutes to the next.

To the next bus comes around or could be longer, you know.

So.

Yeah, kind of.

Kind of interesting.

But.

But to get the P endorsement.

So if you wanted the P. Just the P endorsement.

So that actually is a.

Was a course in itself because you have to take a skills test with that.

You have to do all the ELDT with that, and you need to test in a passenger bus to be able to get that endorsement.

So like most students that come through the school's program, they don't.

They don't.

They don't want the P and the S because they don't.

They don't plan on hauling passengers or kids or anything like that.

But can we break that down?

So anything over 16 passengers, you could go to a data bus.

Data bus, hydraulic break.

But going into, like, Indian Trails or Greyhound, that I'm assuming have air brakes.

Because those are bigger buses.

That's so true.

So, so, so yeah, the P is not all created equally.

So to say.

So you could have the P endorsement, but not a class B CDL with air brakes.

Yeah.

So it could be.

It could be a hydraulic.

Hydraulic brake bus that just would require.

So that would be.

That'd be a class C cdl.

A class cdl.

And then you can have the P and the S. Because actually we've done class cdls with the short buses, like the Head Start buses and different things.

Kind of.

Kind of like the buses my kids ride, you know, and.

Yeah, with hydraulic brakes.

But it's.

It meets the endorsement because it's 16 or more passengers, which pretty much every bus is.

I mean, when you put two kids in a seat, doesn't take long.

Right.

Eight seats, you're there.

So.

And then if it's school bus yellow, which is interesting because that is the only vehicle on the road that's that color.

Legally, it's the only vehicle allowed to be that color is school buses.

To be that school bus yellow.

So not that I wanted to paint my truck yellow, but that's something that.

People need to think about when they're.

If they're going to get their P endorsement or their S endorsement to know what they're going to be driving to set themselves up for success.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Because if you're getting into a.

You.

You want to drive like a coach bus for like a motor coach for like Indian Trails is what's around here.

So they travel around the Midwest and stuff.

But whatever's in your local area, a big motor coach, chances are 95% it's going to be a class B.

It's going to be a class B bus with air brakes, probably an automatic.

And.

And you're going to need that endorsement as well.

So you need to test in a bus like that.

You can't test in a smaller bus and get that.

You got to test in the bigger bus to get the bigger bus endorsement, so to say.

So, yeah, that's important.

Or if you want to be like down in Lansing and other places where you have class A passenger buses, you need to test in a class A bus to be able to get that class A, you know, passenger endorsement.

So.

Yeah, kind of interesting.

There's a lot that goes into that.

If people are interested in that, there is some good opportunities.

I think about, like the data bus here in town.

I just noticed that they're actually hiring right now as well.

Indian Trials Motor Coach Company was hiring.

Even Go Right Way and Marinette, they were hiring too.

So.

So, you know, from a CDL perspective, those are some good opportunities for people as well.

That.

That maybe.

That maybe.

Don't.

Don't think about it.

That's also a CDL just made me think of something.

Somebody just asked me a question the other day about a bus line becoming a driver for a bus line.

I gotta remember that now.

All right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, who was it that's driving around celebrity, like artists and stuff.

There's.

Oh, I helped.

I helped train.

Train them.

And that was cool because I talked to him like a year later and he was driving around like Eric Church and Brad Paisley and I'm like, what, are you kidding me?

And been all over the place.

But he drives the tour bus and takes the band all over the United States to the different shows.

That would be a lot of fun.

Yeah, yeah.

So kind of interesting.

So who knows where you could end up with stuff like that.

But I think there is some opportunities there for sure.

I think if I remember right, he had to get a class A because they're pulling a trailer with that.

That was over.

Yes, yes.

Because.

Because he was pulling the trailer with all the band equipment in it and because the trailer was over £10,000, it was a class A bus.

So I remember that yeah.

So it was kind of a unique situation.

Yeah.

Just.

Just when you think you've seen it all.

Oh, it keeps things interesting.

Well, anything else with p. I think that's.

I think that takes care of the passenger.

Passenger endorsement.

All right, moving on to tanker.

So tanker.

Bill's got a lot of experience in tanker, but with the tanker, that is just a written test down at the dmv, But I would argue that it kind of should be more because there's.

There's a lot that goes in the tanker, and you see a lot of crazy accidents with tankers.

And I think about that.

That rollover that just happened a few years ago up in Houghton with that fuel tanker.

Talk about that side of the.

That's a big thing right there.

And I believe you're right.

With the tanker endorsement, I believe there should be a little more training and I hope and somebody gets hired on somewhere as a tanker driver that the company does their due diligence to make sure that this driver is prepared for what can happen and understands what can happen and prepared for what's going to happen.

Call them milk.

You're not baffled.

We talk about surge.

We could talk about surge all day and the effects it can have.

Now you're in a tanker, your higher center of gravity, whether it be liquid tanker, dry bulk tanker, your center of gravity is higher.

Slow down more in the corners, being aware of what you're doing all the time, even.

Even hauling dry bulk, it's kind of a stable load, but it's not because it's stable there.

But a hard break or a hard turn, it can.

It can shift in that.

On a hard turn, the dry bulk material moves in there and cause you to flip over.

Wow.

So people.

People that get into it, it's like, know that it's just a.

Whatever, 30 question test at the DMV, but just know there is a whole nother level of hazards that go into it.

And you know, you were talking about unbaffled tankers, and I remember the one that I was the first unbaffled tanker that I hauled.

I was like maybe half or three quarters full of.

Of sodium chloride and didn't hit the brakes that hard, but like a normal break.

And nothing happened for a second.

And then all of a sudden it was like a 2x4.

Wham.

Got hit, right?

I was like, holy geez.

And I'm like.

And the whole truck and trailer surged forward and then it hit the back and then went back a little bit and then surged forward again.

And I'm like, Are you kidding me?

You just felt it go back and forth.

And so when people say do not hit the brakes hard with a tanker where, you know, what I like to call feather foot, you know, I mean, nice and easy because you get 8,000 gallons back there, that's moving.

It's crazy.

And when it, when it hits that front bulkhead, I mean it's, it's, it's a shock unlike anything I've seen.

Absolutely.

We can talk about surge.

A lot of people don't think of this.

We run a lot of front load cement trucks around here.

Concrete's still liquid form when it's in there being hauled somewhere.

The cement truck has to come into a hard break.

It'll spill concrete out the front.

Yeah, it'll literally spill it out the front because that concrete is swirling in there and moving around.

So that's along the lines with the tanker.

Slow down, pay attention, plan ahead.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, that, and I didn't realize were pretty much your only baffled tankers are going to be your hazmat.

Because once you haul, haul, you know, fuel or propane or diesel or jet fuel or whatever, that's all you can haul in there.

But there's a lot of tankers on the road that are unbaffled for the simple fact that they can clean them thoroughly in between.

So they can haul milk one day, wine the next, calcium chloride the next, which is non hazmat water, whatever.

There's a lot of non, non hazmat chemicals that you can haul, you know, food grade liquids.

And so there's a lot of unbaffled tankers out there and what they call smoothbore.

And you got to know that's totally different with how you drive it.

And you know what I thought was interesting is when I was learning the tanker side of things was when you're fully loaded in my mind initially was, oh, you know, you're going to feel the most back forth everything else.

But no, no, no, no.

Three, half to three quarters where you're going to feel that the most.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

All right, take my water bottle here.

If you're completely full and you try moving it around, that liquid can't move at all.

Right.

There's not much space to move.

But your three quarters like this or half.

Well, now you have a ton of liquid in there and then you have a ton of space.

And now that liquid will literally do that in the back, but over, you know, 50ft long.

So best time to build momentum.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It's crazy.

Speaking Of I would like to make the shout out to John there, you know that.

So this water came from Crystal Falls, Michigan, right here in the Upper Peninsula.

And actually you were telling me, talk to me about the test that this water's done because it's delicious water.

All right, you.

I don't know much about it.

I'm just going off what I was told.

Yeah.

That it was second place in an international water tasting competition.

Second only to Fiji.

To Fiji water.

Wow.

That's it right here in the up.

So anyway, get it at Meyer.

Check it out.

It's delicious water.

I tell you what.

So thanks, John, for bringing in some, some cases for us.

We really appreciate it.

I don't think John listens to this, but if he, if he does, you know, it's, it's, it's good stuff.

I'm a fan.

But, but back to, back to tanker.

You know, one of the other things that I think is, is important is, is the training on it and actually not just hopping into a tanker on not knowing what you're doing.

Right.

I think that's really, really important.

That even though it's just a test at the DMV to get your tanker endorsement, you know, making sure you understand because even, even, you know, the, the shutoff valves and I've seen videos of tankers where people haven't opened up the COVID on top and the tanker can suck itself in.

I mean, there's, there's some dangerous aspects to that.

Absolutely.

Implosion explosion.

Well, yeah, same thing.

You're loading it and you don't have the valve open to release that air on the inside.

I mean there's, there's a lot there.

There's a lot there.

I hope that somebody gets into it, they pay attention when they're being trained, take their time, be fully aware of the situation.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, so on top of like surgeon slosh, which is simply that movement of liquid in a tanker, right.

Which is a big one, you have side to side movement, front and back movement, but you're going significantly slower around turns and corners than you would a normal cmb, right.

Because you have even, you have to have even more caution.

You have a much higher center of gravity as well.

Like, that's all really important stuff.

But now you have outage in that tanker as well, and that's important to know.

I think of like propane or, you know, lpg, liquefied petroleum gas.

So you look at LPG and I like to ask people, all right, what did you have your propane tank filled up to.

Right.

And when they filled it up, they can't filled it up full.

It's only filled up to 80%.

Right.

Not getting your money's worth.

Billy, fill that puppy up.

Right.

Why do they only fill them up to 80%?

Because it's that outage and it gets warm out and that LPG will expand so significantly where it can blow up the tank or pop the relief valve on it.

But we talked about surge.

Well, that's your forward and backward movement.

You have that still have side surge too.

If you're only say you're half full and go, go into a curve too fast, it's going to shift all that liquid to one side, potentially causing a rollover.

Absolutely, absolutely.

You take a corner too fast, all that liquid is surging to the side of that tanker and now it's up a lot higher because it's all moving.

And now tidal weight.

Yep.

Yeah.

So, so yeah, people are interested.

I, I think there, there's some great opportunities in it.

Right.

There's some money to be made in it.

No doubt.

But just know there's, there's, there's more risks involved too.

Right.

And so you better know what you're doing and have that good quality training on a tanker and be a cautious driver.

Yeah, yeah.

So just, just know after you, after you pass that DMV test, doesn't mean you're a professional haul tankers.

It's, it's a.

The learning is just beginning.

It really is.

I, I know a couple guys that haul tankers and one of the things they do when they're shifting, they shift with the surge.

So you go to take off.

Right.

Where's that surge going?

The surge is going back.

Right.

And then after the surge comes forward, they'll grab a gear, let the surge go back.

Surge comes forward, they'll grab another gear.

And so there's a rhythm there.

Yep.

I'm using, getting, getting into my power band to pull against the surge, pull back, use it to my advantage to upshift, gain some speed before it catches, before it tries to slow me down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

So there's, there's stuff to that that's, that's important.

There's.

Yeah.

Different tips and tricks and everything else.

So.

Yeah, good, good stuff.

And then we'll talk about hazmat tankers in a minute here.

But you have a lot of hazmat tankers and you have a lot of non hazmat tankers.

It depends on what you.

If you're hauling non hazmat tankers then obviously you don't need your hazmat endorsement with that.

Just your n. Tanker endorsement will suffice for, you know, hazmat, you're going to need that as well.

Which will.

Which we'll talk about here.

All right, Are we ready for the next one?

Lo and behold, guess what it is.

Hazmat.

It's hazmat.

It's hazmat.

So hazmatterials endorsement.

So that, that, that's a little bit trickier to get for the simple fact that you got to take, you got to take a class on it, an actual course on it.

Now, there's some great online course options.

I know the school puts out a good one, but there's a lot of good ones out there.

Or go into an in person course as well.

After you pass that eldt course and with a minimum 80%, then you can go and get your fingerprints done.

Right.

And I think you can get your fingerprints done before that too.

I wasn't sure if, wasn't sure if they changed that.

If you had to pass that first, then your background check and your fingerprints to make you eligible for.

Okay, I got to look into that because I think you can do them simultaneously.

But I do know you can't go down to the DMV to take your HAZMAT test until the fingerprint check has come back.

So the.

And what they're checking and providing you.

Pass the first test.

Yes, yes.

So.

So your, so your HAZMAT endorsement requires like an FBI background check.

Get your fingerprints done.

And you know, you know, some people say, well, I'm just hauling, you know, ammonium nitrate, which is your common fertilizer.

Why do I need to do that?

Because with that HAZMAT endorsement, you're allowed to haul really anything on the road.

I mean, you're allowed to haul ammunitions, display fireworks, explosives, radioactive material, chemicals, ammonia.

I mean, you're allowed to haul some crazy stuff with a HAZMAT endorsement.

Stuff, poisonous stuff, corrosives, oxidizers.

I mean, there's, there's a lot of.

There's.

I don't think people realize there's a lot of crazy hash materials out there.

There's a lot on the road every day that people don't realize what they're traveling in their car next to.

Oh, yeah, no, no.

Any, anytime on the road, I'm always picking out the placards and I see, if I see a placard I'm not familiar with, I'm like, okay, that's not diesel fuel or gasoline or Jet fuel.

It's, you know, it's like that's a different, you know, an oxidizer.

Like, ooh, that looks like fun.

Or some type of acid or some crazy stuff out there.

So, yeah.

You ever see a tanker with the diamond shaped placards on the side?

What you could do is you could take that UN number and just Google it and that'll tell you what that is.

Right.

But yeah, there's some of them.

When I'm on the road, I am always curious like, oh, what are they hauling?

Right.

And then you find out it's not so not so fun.

I don't want to be driving around that tanker.

No, no, not that they're not safe, but it's like, man, like, I mean, harmful chemicals like that, who knows, you know, I mean, you certainly won't want to get an accident with something like that.

It's like, it's like the movie Terminator.

Remember that?

It was a load of liquids.

Liquid nitrogen, I think.

Was that right?

Terminator, Liquid nitrogen.

It explodes and that's how they, that's how they, they get him.

You know what I mean?

Liquid.

And then he comes back to life, you know, but, but yeah, that's.

That would, would be a hazmat tanker, right?

Liquid nitrogen.

And that's kind of real like what would happen there with everything flash freezing.

Like, speaking of liquid nitrogen, if you notice, if you see one, you, you'll know.

You'll know what it is if it's hot, because you will see it venting as it's going down the road.

Heat.

It's expanding and it's got a vent.

It's got to vent it out.

That's bizarre.

Yeah, so you see that.

Either stay behind him or get in front of them.

You know, you don't want to hang around next to a liquid nitrogen tanker, you know that.

But there's a, there's a lot more of that being transported on our roadways than people realize.

And as long as people realize to be safe about it and be extra safe driving around those.

Because, I mean, we've all seen those videos of, you know, fuel tankers tipping over and bursting into flames.

It's like that absolutely can happen.

It has happened.

Yes.

Right.

You look at, you know, people hauling display fireworks and there is a ignition source somewhere or, you know, things have gotten wet or, you know, and it's all happened.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

There's chemicals out there that will get flammable when wet.

They get wet, they burst into flames.

So it's like, you got to recognize that I talked to a student here a little while back, and he was hauling.

It's not lithium ion batteries.

It's like a cobalt ion battery for like Tesla.

And that's hazmat because it's so many batteries.

Right?

And so there's.

Yeah, and there's because flammable metals and stuff.

So there was a whole process to haul those safely and.

Yeah, just a lot of, A lot of interesting stuff.

But, but that's why, that's why you need an FBI background check, get your fingerprints done to make sure, you know, Are qualified to all this stuff, but also that, you know, aren't going to, are going to do anything, you know, dumb.

To harm others.

To harm others, exactly.

So that makes sense.

So, all right, so you take the course, you pass the course on has materials, you take your background check.

Right.

And that can take.

I know, like this last time I had to renew mine and I had to redo my fingerprints.

And it only took like a week and a half, two weeks.

It was really quick to come back.

But I know, I've heard it take up to six weeks if, if you've never maybe never had a background check.

Right.

Or let's touch on that for a.

Second though, like, so that's something to think about when a guy has his hazmat.

Know this, that that's coming up.

Renew that prior to.

Absolutely.

That's you having a gap.

That's a really good point.

Because if you wait till the week that it expires, it's going to expire because your, your background check isn't going to come back.

And that's important to know too, is hazmat's one of the.

I believe it's the only endorsement.

It is the only endorsement that you need to retake the test on it and redo your background check and your fingerprints every, every, every time your license renews, which is typically every four or five years or six years, depending on endorsement.

Yeah, that's the only one.

So.

Because I thought it interesting that, you know, I teach this stuff and, and they made me take the test again too, you know, which, which is fine.

But.

But just to make sure, you know, because things update.

Right.

I know, like over the last handful of years, they went from NA numbers, like, to UN numbers.

And so UN is United nations numbers.

So it's more global as opposed to na, which is just North America.

So they want to Be more global with their shipping.

To make sure there's, you know, everything's, everything's the same across the board with international commerce.

Exactly.

And there's a lot, obviously a lot of that going on, so.

And to make sure things are consistent across the globe, which is interesting.

You know, the other thing with Hazmat I think it's important to, to recognize is, is you're dealing with more dangerous loads.

Right.

So it's so, so as a driver you have to be a lot more defensive.

You got to know, you got to know what you're doing, pay attention to what you're doing.

Where an accident with a Hazmat could be catastrophic.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean?

Compared to, to a regular drive in trailer.

I mean it's one of those things you roll over with a drive in trailer.

Yeah, that's going to suck.

Probably lose your job still.

But you know, you roll over with a Hazmat, you can burst into flames and burn down a bridge.

I mean, it could be a horrible situation.

So more training goes into the Hazmat also stopping at every railroad crossing where a typical CMV does not have to.

Different regulations on when you pull in somewhere to get fuel.

What you can and can't do versus a normal cmb.

That's all stuff you got to be aware of.

Absolutely.

Even going through, going through tunnels and stuff.

Most, most tunnels I think of like the Loveland, Loveland Pass and stuff where you, you got to take the pass.

If you're Holland Hazmat they don't allow you to go through the tunnel.

So you got to be aware of all that.

Don't want to get caught.

You want to go across the Mackinac Bridge, you got to be escorted to make sure once again you don't do anything dumb.

Right.

So yeah, there's, there's a whole other set of regulations when it comes to Hazmat.

It's not just, oh, get this little endorsement on your license.

It's like, yeah, there's a lot that goes into it.

You have to know what you're doing.

And a lot more awareness for you as a driver.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And you have to be more, more defensive because someone else makes a big mistake on the road and you're not really defensive on that.

It's like there's a catastrophic event that nobody wants.

Yo.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That's.

It could be a massive deal to, to say the least here.

All right, well, we're cruising right along here.

Let's see here.

X.

So X endorsement just means like that's what I have on my license.

That just means you have your tanker and hazmat endorsement.

Do you know why they do they say the X?

I don't know.

I mean, is to save some ink on your driver's license, you know, so.

Yeah.

So as opposed to having it separately, like H and N on your license, they just put the X.

You got X, you got.

You got them all.

If we're talking letters, why is the end tanker and T is not what's happened?

Because T is doubles, triples.

Should have been a tanker.

Right.

Yeah, exactly.

But somebody with a lot more letters behind their name came up with that.

All right.

Than me.

All right.

That's all I know.

Just follow the rules.

Exactly.

That's.

That's all I do.

You know that.

But I mean, somebody made up those rules, right?

Somebody made that up.

I don't.

I don't know who that person was.

It was probably a long time ago.

They might not be around anymore.

Right.

But I'm sure at the time there was.

There was reason behind it.

There was rationale.

There was rationale.

So.

But X just simply means you have your hazmat and your tanker.

You can haul Hazmat tanker, essentially, which is very common.

Very.

Well, like, like around where we're at, you know, and this is pretty common in my travels, but, you know, you see a lot of gasoline being hauled, a lot of diesel fuel being hauled, a lot of lpg, a lot of propane, compressed natural gas.

I mean, there's.

That's pretty.

Pretty much petroleum products as the hazmat we see around here on a regular basis.

And we're talking.

We've hit a lot about even like hazardous materials stuff with a class A cdl.

But there's class B CDL that require hazardous materials also.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Take your air gas, your local air gas truck, hauling the bottles around.

He's going to be.

Absolutely.

So he's hauling, you know, acetylene and, you know, other torch fuels up your.

Class B paddle trucks for your propane.

Yeah.

Fuel.

So.

And those are good opportunities, too.

Yeah, we could be a class B cdl, but still with that hazardous.

Hazardous and tanker endorsement.

Yeah.

So you have your hazmat and tanker endorsement, but on a class B cdl.

So that's.

That's common as well.

Absolutely.

So, yeah, pretty much any.

Any bottle on a straight truck is going to be A, B, C, D, L at that point.

Yeah.

All right, last but not least, school bus.

School bus hauling, the most precious commodity that you can haul, which is of course, my children, Billy.

So I've been told.

Something that I've never done, nor do I want to, but I will give a shout out to all the school bus drivers out there.

Absolutely.

Thank you for doing what you do.

Because I, I certainly, you know, can't stand my own kids sometimes.

All right.

Let alone other people's.

So I tell you what.

Absolutely.

Praise school bus drivers.

Yes.

And I hope they're all safe.

School's starting up here pretty soon.

Oh yeah.

Everybody stay safe.

Everyone stay safe.

And, and you know, to get that endorsement on your license, you know, it's important to know how to, how to operate a school bus.

But you know, the fact that you're making so many stops in a day picking all these kids up.

And I was up this morning at, at 6:00 and it was dark outside.

It was like all of a sudden it is dark outside at 6am this is like, I feel like it was the first time.

I'm like, it's like, you know, because, you know, every day just gets a little shorter, a little shorter, a little shorter.

And so.

But sure enough, we're going to, you know, start picking up kids.

And most school buses pick up kids in the dark.

And so, you know, you gotta be more attentive.

Right.

You gotta watch your surroundings.

I think traffic checks are so important to make sure cars are stopping and you have kind of control over that bus.

Y. Yep.

Maybe hit on that.

But everybody out there know school's starting soon.

Leave home 10 minutes sooner than you.

Normally cuz you're gonna get.

School buses are gonna be out there.

We need to keep our bus drivers and all them little kids safe every day.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

And you know, there was a little like pr, I don't know, pamphlet put out there that school bus lights are the same as traffic lights.

Right.

You see the, you see the alternating ambers, the yellows, that means stop.

You see the reds and the stop sign, that means absolutely stop, you know, and, and you know, stay stopped.

Give those buses adequate distance, a space cushion.

Right.

And some students have to cross the road.

Some students are getting off the bus.

If it's in the afternoon, probably they're getting off the bus.

If it's in the morning, they're getting on the bus.

Never pass a bus with its lights on.

All in all, and just realize that all buses kind of stop at railroad crossings.

So you know, you see that once in a while where people rear end school buses.

Oh, why they stop at that in the middle of the road?

Well, it's a railroad crossing.

Right.

They stop at all railroad crossings and they gotta open the door and make sure there's no.

No train coming.

People need to recognize that.

Yeah.

So school.

School's kicking off, so it's important to be, you know, just, just your four wheelers out there.

Be more defensive.

But.

And like that point that you said is great, leave 10 minutes early.

And that way if you do get stopped a little bit along the way, it's no big deal.

Slow down.

Give the school bus some space.

Everybody have a safe school year.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Keep our.

Keep my kiddos safe.

All right.

You know that.

But that's why they ride the bus, because that is the safest vehicle out on the road is.

Is a school bus.

Yeah.

They stand up high and they got a roll cage and they.

They're safe, you know, so.

So the bus driver's safer driver than dad is.

Nah.

When I, you know what?

I'm not going to say yay or nay on that.

I would say, you know, we're both safe.

All right.

But there's definitely more meat on a school bus than there is my Chevy Colorado.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

That's.

That's for sure.

So to get that S endorsement.

So that is a test at the dmv, written test, but you also have to test in a school bus vehicle as well.

You have to do.

And in that CDL skills test.

Yes, the normal pre trip, yard, road, but you also have railroad crossings that you have to do.

And that's a test in itself, as well as student discharge and pickup.

That's another test.

So there's a lot that's involved with it.

There's a lot of regulations as far as the FMCSR goes when it comes to hauling kids around.

Right.

It's a lot different than the other endorsements that we've talked about that have just been a test at the DMV.

This involves 40 hours.

Yes.

Training, skills, skills test, written test, knowledge tests.

You have to do the full ELDT on.

On school bus.

So.

So there's a lot going into it.

But I do know for anyone looking to get their, you know, S and P endorsements, which.

And typically that's a class B CDL as well.

You know, the majority of schools are hiring right now.

They really are.

They.

There's massive demand right now for school bus drivers.

So, you know, reach out to your local, you know, bus or truck driving school, you know what I mean?

And, you know, pick up those endorsements because there's a lot of good opportunities with that So I know I was talking to a mom here, this was like last year, and she had gotten her class B with S and P just so she could drive her kids to school on the school bus.

So that's cool.

Yeah, it's cool, though.

So she.

She was like, you know, I'm taking my own kids.

I'm, you know, so I know I'm safe and in the bus.

And so it was a win win.

Right.

Because she's like, either way, I'm driving my kids to school.

Either I'm driving them or on the bus, I'm driving them and I get paid to drive my kids to school.

So I thought that was kind of cool.

I've been hearing there's other options out there if you don't want to be a full time bus driver.

Some of these school districts are looking for people just for all their football teams.

Oh, yeah.

Travel stuff.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

That's really common too.

And I know there's been games that have been canceled because they couldn't find a bus driver to haul the team for football or a wrestling meet or baseball.

Too busy to be a full time bus driver.

There's options.

Call wherever you're at.

Talk to your local district.

There might be opportunity to make a little money on the side.

Have a school bus.

Absolutely.

And I know they're always looking for subs as well because people get sick.

That's a part of life.

So even getting in as a sub here and there to help out, you know, there's.

But there's a.

Definitely a need for it.

Definitely need for it.

I would.

I would argue that the majority of school districts, wherever you're at, chances are one of them is higher in school bus drivers because there's just a massive demand for school bus drivers.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I actually thought about it, Billy, you know, that, you know, and then I realized I would have to deal with other people's kids and my own kids, you know that.

And so.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, and.

And my kids are always better for other people.

And I don't know why, but.

Yeah, but they would be like a bowl in a china shop on a school bus if I was driving, you know that.

So I don't know if I can kick my own kids off the bus, but that's where it would lead to.

I just know it.

I just know it.

Well, you know what?

Like I said, Billy, short and sweet.

All right.

I think this was great.

You know, if people have any questions on endorsements or maybe they're unsure about this or that you know, put them in the chat down below and we can answer them.

But I think that's.

That was pretty comprehensive, talking about all the different endorsements you can get.

At the end of the day, the more endorsements you have, the more.

The more opportunities are going to open themselves up.

Yeah, I know when Schneider came in here last week, they encouraged all the students to get their tanker and their hazmat endorsement because they said even though there's very few tankers in hazmat that they haul, if you have them, you get paid more, and they know they can put that load on you if they have one.

Right.

Even if it's only a handful of times a year.

So makes you more versatile driver to somebody.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And the tanker.

The tanker's pretty much becoming more and more required across the board as well, so.

Tanker, definitely get that on.

Just a little written test of the dmv, but definitely get that on your cdl.

I think that's going to go a long ways.

Well, always a pressure, Bill.

All right, thanks again for being on the show today.

Absolutely.