E{emum} | Why Most Tradespeople Stay Broke Despite Earning Big

It's not about how much money you make, it's about how much money you keep.

Money needs to work for me, not the other way around.

Yep, absolutely.

Money is easy to make, money's easy to get, it's hard to keep.

It's hard to keep and hold onto it.

We really need to focus on the 20% of stuff that makes us 80% of our money.

Cash is king.

Don't eat up your cash into an investment like that.

When you can buy 10 duplexes, leverage 10% down, and that 100 grand can go for 10, and now you have significantly more ROI over those properties.

Be like truly wealthy.

Not money.

That's not money in a bank or something.

But to me, wealth is freedom.

And that is at any point in my time, I can stop everything and just be like, all right, let's go sit on a beach somewhere.

If you're thinking about a career in the trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Well, good morning, Trish, and thanks for joining us on Built in the Midwest podcast.

Happy to be here.

I appreciate you being here.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Trish, you have Redline redesign, and you're in real estate, you're an entrepreneur, you've done accounting.

We were just talking about working at the mines at one time.

You know, talk to me about your story.

That kind of got you into Redline redesign.

Sure.

So I spent about 14 years working for a general contractor, and that is where I really think the premise of my whole story started.

Because working in construction, it has.

It's high energy, high disappointments, highs, lows, all the above.

I thrived in it.

I absolutely learned that I work best in high stress, high pace, easily get bored.

And that doesn't happen in construction.

No, not at all.

I did really enjoy being in a male dominated industry.

I felt my personality is a little abrasive.

I tend to be very direct.

And where some people might not have loved that, I thrived in it.

I loved it being guys.

And I've heard that before, where some females are scared to get into different industries because, well, it's male dominated.

And you're saying, no, that's where I thrived.

That's where I did well.

Yeah.

And I think it's evolved a lot over the years.

It's been four years since I was there, so we're talking 18 years ago, I started in that industry.

I had some of the best, you know, people to follow.

My mother was the CFO of that company.

So she was running a very big.

She was the boss.

Well, and she's a strong woman as well.

Yeah, yeah.

If you know Brenda.

Oh, yeah, we'll give a shout out to her, you know, that she doesn't pull any punches.

No, and I love that about her.

I mean, you know exactly where you're.

At when you're having a conversation with her.

She's a $33 million company that was all men.

It was her, my aunt, and, you know, myself following in their footsteps.

So my aunt Tammy as well.

They, you know, one ran the financials, one ran the estimating, and I was just surrounded by strong women that made room in spaces that they weren't maybe supposed to be in.

They made themselves there.

They belonged there.

Yeah.

No, that's amazing.

And that's.

That's one thing that kind of the whole underlying theme of this podcast is just for young to be able to inspire, encourage young people to kind of follow their dreams, follow their paths, but also, like, be realistic about it, but also break through some of those maybe barriers that are more mental barriers.

And so who were the big kind of influences in your life?

Sounds like your mom was a big part of it.

My mom, 100%.

Again, being a female, all of the men that I worked with, the superintendents, the project managers, learning really young, starting in that industry at 18 years old and knowing you don't know shit.

You don't know shit.

Listen, be in the room, observe, take notes.

That was taught to me very young.

You should never walk into a room without a notepad.

You need to absorb what everybody else is going on.

I enjoy being the.

I don't want to be the most intelligent person in the room.

I don't want to be the one that knows it all, that, you know, if I'm in a room, I'm going to be able to learn and absorb something.

So definitely all of the people that were running that, you know, starting back to the construction company, 14 years, can't spend 14 years anywhere and not be extremely influenced.

And just I knew very young that I loved the fast paced, I loved the high stress because I don't look at stress as a bad thing.

I look at stress as a motivator, a driver.

And I learned that really young.

That construction.

That was it.

There's never a dull moment.

No, not at all.

Even in the accounting side of things.

So I naturally fell into the accounting roles because as a woman, that is our.

You know, that was kind of my strong suit.

My mother was the cfo.

She filled a lot of different hats.

But I naturally went into that position first and found a love in numbers.

What people aren't very strong in.

I found my niche.

I found, oh, okay, this makes sense to me.

I can do payroll for 500 guys on a Tuesday, and that's okay.

It was, you know, so I found my strong suit there.

Absolutely loved the numbers.

Really thrived in the payroll side of things.

When you work with a company that size, you're not outsourcing to the ADPs.

AI could never do what we're doing.

So even 18 years ago, I knew, this is a niche.

I'm good at it, I'm organized, and I can retain the information that's being presented.

Every business on the planet and every entity on the planet has to have an accountant, has to have a bookkeeper, has to have somebody controlling the numbers.

And you have to run a business.

Yes.

By the numbers.

You have to.

And you gotta monitor the numbers.

So the numbers.

You know, it's one thing to have data entry, which is where I started, of course, was data entry.

But being able to analyze those numbers is what really sets me apart now.

But that took 20 years, so.

Absolutely.

Can you talk about that?

Analyze the numbers?

I think a lot of people out there, a lot of people out there that have never looked at a financial statement or a balance sheet or a P and L. Where.

What's your favorite financial statement and what do you look for in that analysis?

Depends what I'm analyzing.

So if I'm analyzing the strengths of a company or the profitability, of course we go to a P&L first profit and loss statement.

That's the first thing you're going to go look at.

But what's the time frame?

So a lot of factors go into that.

A P and L can be from last month, can be from the year, can be composite of, you know, So I. Yeah, it just depends.

What am I analyzing?

If I'm just analyzing how a company sitting a P and L only says so much, I want to go to the balance sheet, too.

I want to go to a balance sheet.

I want to see how much cash does the company have, how many assets.

If a P and L is not super strong, I expect a really strong balance sheet.

That balance sheet says, okay, they're reinvesting in equipment, they're sitting on a lot of cash or other investments.

Maybe the P and L's thin But the money's getting reinvested into different places.

Exactly.

They are making a lot of money, but they're reinvesting it.

And there was one thing here just recently I was talking to the accountant and talking about like, you know, you want to reduce your taxes, you know, you can, you know, there's different equipment purchases and different stuff.

You can buy and accelerate that depreciation.

We were talking about that.

Where do we do with our money?

That's how we started.

You know, it's funny because you've always been.

And it's very similar trait that I have is just inquisitive.

We're still sitting around the campfire having a couple cold ones and Trish and I were just talking about this and.

Yeah, how can we save some money on taxes and different.

I don't like the word loophole.

There's something more.

No, no, because that means you're doing something.

Now, tax law is very extensive and I am not a tax example and I'm not a cpa.

I'm looking at getting an enrolled agent, you know, license.

But it's really just for my own.

To understand that side of it more.

Because the fact of the matter is, any business out there, if you go to 10 different tax accountants, CPAs, you're gonna get 10 totally different returns.

Totally different returns.

Now explain that like, you know, it's so, so it's.

And none of them may be wrong.

No leveraging.

Different leveraging, I say different tools.

Different tools that you're able to take advantage of.

Yeah.

If you're a business owner, the most important thing you can do is interview a cpa.

You know, we were talking about, do we think we have the best CPAs?

Maybe not.

But, you know, interviewing a good CPA, that is where you're gonna retain more of your money or have like more of a wealth building tool.

So right now I'm still kind of interviewing.

I'm with a CPA who does great.

But I do feel like, okay, somebody's gotta know more than me when it comes to some different tax strategies.

Absolutely.

Well, and you're.

I mean, and I'd love to talk about kind of your portfolio a little bit because I just think it's amazing kind of what you're doing.

And that's kind of new to me.

So I was like, I had to Google that I'm like, what is that?

But it's like that's a huge deal that could save you.

Tax shelters are what is gonna continue to build you growth and wealth.

It is.

So if we just work and we're paying more, let's, you know, in taxes, might as well just get a job at that point.

Exactly.

You know, so there's.

Because you're not building anything.

Yeah.

Yep.

And I always looked at it, there was a few different strategies I used last year because okay, I have to write a check no matter what.

Do I want to write that check to this to build the company with this piece of equipment to, you know, put into an investment fund on my kids behalf.

Yeah.

You know, there's different things that you can do, but you have to have the people in your corner.

So having in my business like four core people is really important.

And I'm still building my four core.

I would call it a CPA is one of them.

Even though I have such a financial strong background, I would never do my own taxes.

No, I can.

Nobody's telling me I can't.

I absolutely wouldn't.

No.

But you want to make sure that.

Because a good accountant and a good CPA can save you tens, hundreds of thousands potentially if done properly.

And it's not.

Yeah, and you're exactly.

It's not loopholes.

It's just understand that in the tax code which is like this.

And they change every year and they change every year and they change with every administration every year.

So to me that was.

Could I go down and no knock on H and R block, but could I bring my, my financials are so clean.

I'm sure they are to where anybody.

Could punch them into, you know, a tax return.

But to me it's not.

I would rather invest.

I don't say spend.

I'd rather invest some money into a good cpa.

One of those core people that can help me leverage my money in a better way.

Absolutely.

And it's interesting that you say that cause I was talking to a lineman student here recently and graduated.

He's in an apprenticeship.

He's making like $48 an hour.

Right.

And that requires some extra.

What he wants to do.

Go and buy a brand new truck.

Right.

And I told him, don't do that.

You're my initial reaction.

I'm like, ooh, yeah.

I'm like, ooh.

Like, you know, he said, well, I've never made this much money and I can do it and everything else, you know.

And I think that's a huge Problem that a lot of people have.

Just cause you're making.

It's not about how much money you make, it's about how much money you keep.

And I'm just as guilty of it too.

Our generation, I'm 36 years old.

Our generation, we have never gone without, let's be real.

We've never gone without.

Our parents went without.

We don't know sacrifice.

We really don't.

So it's hard to teach yourself that because our generation, we had the.

We had the newest phones.

We had.

Even if you weren't well off, you still had a phone or you still had a car.

Our parents didn't have that.

So I think discipline is the hardest thing you can teach yourself.

I struggle with it every day, but.

You continue to work at that.

It's not something that, oh, I struggle with, so I'm not gonna do it, but it's like, yeah, I struggle with it too, but it's something that I remind myself every day, kind of.

You have to be cognizant of it.

You have to remind yourself that, okay, yes, I.

Especially in real estate, I had huge chunks of money at once.

I don't have a paycheck anymore.

So that I've only not had a paycheck for.

It's been about seven months.

So I've had to really shift my gears to where, okay, this is amazing.

You know, we get this big chunk of money because we did a flip house or I did a real estate transaction because I am a licensed realtor.

You know, I'll get these chunks of money.

And being disciplined with that is.

I can't even imagine the younger gen. You know, it's gotta be very tough.

They're not.

And it's something you gotta work on and you gotta.

Really?

Yeah.

Budgets aren't fun and you know, but I've always come from the mindset that doesn't matter how much I make, I'm still gonna watch my pennies.

Yep, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yep.

And always live, live beneath your means, I think is important.

And like splurging.

So that was my advice with this line this year.

I was like, you know what?

You're making good money.

I was like, you know what?

Save it, invest it.

All right?

Put it in a low cost index fund or invest it in real estate.

Right.

There's a lot of different, I think vehicles where you can invest proper.

Don't want to do is get something that's just going to depreciate and you know, think about.

And this is something that I've Thought a lot about is think about different ways that you can develop more passive income.

Is passive income not the goal?

Shouldn't that be the goal?

Your money should work for you.

Yes.

I just finished a. I'm getting really back into reading.

I think you inspired me.

I bought two of the books you recommended.

I just had to finish one that another friend gave me.

Oh, they're so good.

They're so good.

I love them.

Retired before your parents, or what was it?

Retired before mom and dad by Rob and Dad.

That's my next one on my list.

I'll tell you what, if there's anyone listening that you want, one of the best books that'll change your life.

Retired before mom and dad by Rob Berger.

Absolutely amazing.

And, you know, it's funny how, you know, forever, my entire life, people have said, knowledge is power.

Nobody knows what that means.

Nobody knows what that means.

And it's not until I've gotten older and I've read some books and I'm like, oh, my goodness, why?

I think we read so much when we're kids in school and you get out of college and if you went to college and you just.

You don't want to read for fun anymore.

I was never a reader.

Never was a reader.

Neither was I.

And I think I sat on a computer all day and I was.

You know, the last thing I wanted to do was pick up a Kindle or anything like that.

I started buying paper books.

I'm all, paper books.

There's something about having that paper book in my hand.

I don't know.

I have a brand new Kindle.

And when you start that paper book, there is something about, like, you're whatever.

You turn a few pages, there's something about turning the last page.

You want to get to the end.

It's getting into reading.

When you start something, you want to finish it.

And it's nice when you have books like you recommend and stuff that are going to have things I'm interested in as well as good.

I call it Meat and Potatoes, where the meat and potatoes are still there.

I'm learning something.

But it's also not just a textbook of how to get rich quick.

Exactly.

And there's no.

I've read enough books on this stuff that there is no getting rich quick.

There just isn't.

It's gonna require a lot of sweat equity and everything, but it's.

It's that sweat equity that makes it worth it.

Right?

Yeah.

You know, because like they say, you know, easy come, easy go.

Oh, it goes.

We joke I said, I'll get that check, and it's gone.

It's already spoken for because of other investments, though.

So that's what I've gotten good at, is if I can spend the money on another investment, that helps greatly.

To me, money needs to work for me, not the other way around.

Yep, absolutely.

Money is easy to make.

Money's easy to get.

But keeping it.

It's hard to keep.

It's hard to keep and hold onto it.

Yes.

And reinvesting in a million different strategies is the way that I have found.

Okay, I'm continuously growing my wealth because if it's sitting in a bank account, first of all, never.

I don't.

I don't.

I have barely.

It's going to lose.

I keep a very small reserve fund.

Because it's going to lose money every single year via inflation.

Yes.

I just read a stat.

This is crazy, but in the last hundred years, the dollar Bill has lost 99% of its value.

99%, Yep.

And I had somebody ask me the other day, you know, they had come into a big chunk of money.

I can't remember if it was a family member had passed or something, but he had $100,000 cash.

And he's like, what do I do with it?

He goes, I think I want to go buy.

Buy a Camaro, you know.

He goes, I think I want to buy a duplex cash and rent it out.

I said, no, no, no, no.

Don't buy anything cash.

No, I said that.

Okay, you buy that duplex cash, right now.

You know, interest rates, if it's the first, you could get 6%, 6 to 7%.

I said, and that.

That property will cash flow greatly.

But how.

How long do you think it's going to take you to re.

Get your ROI?

Basically, return on investment on $100,000.

If great.

You're getting.

You're renting out each side for $800.

You got 1,600amonth coming in, plus expenses.

Still, in my opinion, I'm like, I would buy 10 duplexes.

The guy wanted to retire.

That was his goal.

His goal was.

He got this.

He was older.

He wanted to get into real estate.

I said, well, to me, 100 grand.

That buys rough numbers.

10 Duplexes at 10% each.

They're all gonna, you know, they're all gonna cash flow.

But what a mind shift.

So explain that.

Sounds like that leverage.

How does a hundred bank leveraging.

I am very big on the brrr method.

There's a few different ways, but that book, if any that is the book I would recommend if somebody came to me right now and they said, I wanna start.

Kinda how you did that book.

I read it just.

It's the one I'm finishing right now.

And then I'm hop to yours.

I love like reminding myself of everything I know as well.

So this was a good refresher, I would call it.

And it gave me a.

There was still a lot of information.

I'm like, oh, okay, yeah.

This is why you would burr and hold or burr and save basically, or sell.

So that is the difference between buying real estate.

Interesting.

Rehabbing it, refinancing and keeping it as a rental or buy it, rehab it and sell it and reinvest.

So you have kind of two different ways you could take that.

And I do a mix.

So I do buy, rehab, refinance and save it and rent it and do these things.

And then I also will sell.

We have flip houses that are way too nice to rent, but have.

You know, that book talks about when to do each or.

And you do both of that because that was something that was interested in.

Is like, do you prefer.

I mean, maybe it's a little bit of everything, but do you prefer the flip?

Do you prefer rentals?

Do you prefer Airbnbs?

I mean, is there a strategy or just different homes fit into different boxes.

Different.

That's a great way to put it.

Different homes fit into different boxes.

So.

So we do a mix right now.

I have found that I needed a creative outlet.

Rentals are boring.

They're boring.

They're long term, they're boring and they're kind of a headache.

But it's what I do.

So I do love my rental portfolio.

I have about 40 units now at this point.

Long term rentals, then the flips are fun.

They're fun, they're shiny.

I'm dealing with a crew of guys that I don't know if they love working with me, but I love working with them.

And I get to be a little bit more creative.

Fun colors, good cabinets.

I love what you put up on Facebook and stuff on the different.

And you're like, you know what?

I wanted to make this space.

What was I looking at that video on?

Like, you know, this was the kitchen that I wanted open up this space a little bit because everyone likes a nice kitchen.

And I'm like, but you, you're.

I mean your kind of ingenuity and creativity in that.

I'm not a designer, never would claim to be.

I kind of though just enough, just enough of it.

But you Even got the AI where you're like, what color looks good and going through.

I'm not big on marketing and social media and I know I need to be in real estate and what I'm trying to do.

I'm not hgtv, you know, I.

But I think in our area, it's fun, it's exciting.

People like seeing that I'm bringing some value back to homes locally.

So the house we have listed right now, it is a two bedroom, one bath.

Gentleman had lived there for 70 years.

He had 70 years.

Yep.

I just saw that house on your picture.

Yeah.

And it's adorable.

And when I walked in, nothing had been touched in 70 years.

He maintained everything, but okay.

Did it need a complete gut?

Yes, it needed a complete gut.

That's even before, like the yellow carpet.

I mean, that's even.

Yeah, there's carpet in the kitchen and there's carpet in the bathrooms and all these different things.

But that house is on a beautiful block.

It has wonderful neighbors and it wasn't an eyesore.

So I wouldn't consider this one where people are like, thank goodness she's flipping it.

The guy had maintained it enough.

But it was fun to reinvest something and add another beautiful home to Escanaba.

I do.

We did Gladstone once too.

So Esky Gladstone.

I haven't traveled out over there for flips right now.

I want to keep them close while I'm still learning.

Yeah, absolutely.

But you're taking something.

I think this is a beautiful thing that you're taking something that's, say, subpar.

Something that's really old and outdated and it's really not worth a lot.

And you're making it worth something because I'll tell you what, people are aged.

Going back.

Going back to Instagram.

We don't go without.

And we don't go without.

People don't want fixer uppers.

All right.

No.

All right.

Are you talking about old yellow carpet and walls?

They can do exactly what I did.

Crown molding that, you know, was popular.

It's like, no, people aren't going to buy that.

They can do exactly what I did.

But a lot of people, especially when they're home with their home, I guess they want turnkey home buyers right now.

Some have it in them, some don't.

And I don't blame them.

People are busy.

They have lives.

So offering some brand new homes to the market, that is.

It was a niche I saw that was missing.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it goes to show, every house that I've had, that's Hit the market has been multiple offers over asking, or at least if, you know, just a great appreciation.

Beautiful home.

Not for us.

And I love that too.

I'm like, great.

I haven't had any negative feedback on any of those.

No.

And I think that's something where, you know, people look at people that flip houses sometimes, and it's like, oh, you're just in it to make money in this house.

And there's some flippers out there.

I walked with you.

Oh, yeah.

And you've seen that.

But it's like, you know, you're making these beautiful places that were, you know, might be.

If they were continuing down the path, they'd be bulldozed.

Oh, my gosh.

I've had some where I'm like, I can't believe I bought this.

Like, I don't know.

I have one right now.

I'm like, guys, I don't know.

But they reassure me.

Just.

Just.

It'll be okay.

No.

So we have this.

The one that just hit the market wasn't a deplorable, you know.

Wasn't.

No.

But I've got two others that are gonna be.

Once I close on this one, it'll be a very.

It belongs on hgtv, because that's how bad it is.

And once I'm done with it, I'm gonna be so proud to show it off.

Yeah, absolutely.

So it's like, oh, boy.

And then you open up walls.

And I've seen those before.

And it's like, oh, boy, look at the rot here.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, That's.

But to me, I'm taking something that nobody else was gonna buy, and I'm reinvesting it into the community.

And of course, I'm making money.

It's a business, so.

Absolutely.

So I love that side of the business that is very new.

We've been doing it for a year and a half.

I started that when I was working full time still, so it was a hobby, essentially.

I found a great contractor that wanted to stop searching for work.

He's like, I would just love to do what you got and be kind.

Of committed to using it.

Yeah.

And he still does projects and stuff.

ZP and Stu, you know.

So you're able to keep him busy.

He's happy.

Yep.

And you're happy because.

Well, you gotta have kind of a crew.

You do.

You do.

Yes.

You do have to have a crew.

I've gotten to the point now we've done, like, four or five houses where he can take my direction initially, and then he runs with It.

I'm still a little OCD where I gotta go check on them, but I'm never disappointed.

The work's always there, and then towards the end, we'll have.

But they do.

Fantastic.

So now, you know, that brings me to, like, another point of really sticking with what makes you money, too.

Yep.

I'm not gonna.

I'm not gonna swing the hammer, you know, so he's told me a few times, hey, we got it.

Go do what makes us money.

Yeah, yeah.

Go find more homes.

Go.

You know, so that's where I've had to realign myself a few times.

You're the visionary.

Yeah, right.

You're the visionary.

You see that big picture.

You see this duplicated home, and you say, you know what?

That's going to be beautiful.

Yeah.

And there's been times where I'm like, well, I could just paint this and I could do this and that.

And then the current book I'm reading, it talks about the 80, 20 rule where, you know, really, when we get to this level of entrepreneurship, we really need to focus on the 20% of stuff that makes us 80% of our money.

Exactly.

And for me, that's buying homes, that is finding those.

Those leads, getting buyers, being eyes in.

The community on what's going on and stuff like that.

It's competitive too.

So you can.

Oh, yeah, you have to be.

You gotta be up on it.

Yep.

You have to be ready to go.

So that has been more of a recent thing where I'm like, okay, you're right.

20% Of this.

I need to stick to my 20% because I have all these other core people now that are supporting me in our business in the other 80% of stuff.

So, yeah, I need to sit in this seat.

Yeah.

No, I love even what you said there with the, you know, you got $100,000, what can you do with it?

And I think, you know, essentially what you said with that is, cash is king.

Don't eat up your cash into an investment like that.

That's when you can buy 10 duplexes, leverage 10% down, and that 100 grand can go for 10.

And now you have significantly more ROI.

Over those properties, even your cash flow.

This gentleman was.

He wanted to make sure he was getting so much cash flow per month.

And I said, well, you know, to me, we could either cash flow, sure, the whole $1,600 a month from that one duplex, or you buy the 10 that are each cash flowing, maybe $300 per unit.

Okay.

Now we're at 3,000.

When you're in real estate, debt is not something to be afraid of.

Debt is how we leverage wealth.

That is 100%.

I have debt, but that also has built me my assets.

And already the homes that I bought, I've been in this only been four years.

Yeah.

You know, the homes that I purchased four years ago, the appreciation alone.

Oh, in the last four or five years since COVID and everything.

Absolutely.

To where I.

Now an LTV is what banks look at loan to value.

So they like to see a loan to value of a portfolio of under 80% if you.

Yeah.

And that's hard in the beginning.

Well, sure it is.

It's hard in the beginning because you.

Are eating a lot of cash at that point.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

So my bank has been fantastic working with me and saying, okay, you know, we get it.

You're at 85% loan to value right now.

Let's start.

You know, we're not gonna refi this property.

Cause this one's bringing our loan to value down in a good way.

We bought this new one that's maybe leveraged at 90%.

But these other ones that we bought and have appreciated and been paid down, those are at 70.

So watching your loan to value.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not afraid of debt at all.

No.

So, so, you know, so going back to like running, you know, any business, but especially that by the numbers, understanding what's required.

Now I remember reading one time about like from a, an investment perspective, a home.

Like the 1 2% rule.

Yeah.

Where you know, how does that fit into it?

Because you could have a beautiful house, but if you can't get the rent that you need, then is it worth.

Around here is a 2% rule.

I would never, I, I wouldn't.

And what that means is, sure, if you buy a house at $100,000, you need to have at least 2% rent, which is, you know, I try to go between, you know, two grand's a lot.

You're not going to get that tells you right there, single family homes are not the best investment.

Interesting.

In rentals.

Okay.

In rentals, it just.

No, it's not.

The numbers don't chime.

You're talking about like a duplex.

Okay.

Now we have about the same price as a single family home.

So a duplex.

Now I've come into contract with a few.

You're hovering around 120.

120 Is a great duplex price, I would say, for a turnkey duplex.

And you know what's that going to rent for easily $1,200.

Yeah.

You know, that's your 1%.

So to get up to the 24.

Yeah.

If they're two beds, you're still going.

To be apartment per se.

It's still a home.

Still a home side by side.

So it would be a lot easier to get up to $2,400 with a duplex rent than $2,000 on a single family home.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

So even though the single family home.

Yeah.

Is.

Is.

Is probably nicer, looks smarter, you got a yard, blah, blah.

And tenants seem to want that more.

Of course they want the single family homes.

But in Escanaba too, we're creeping up past a price that people can afford.

So I have a few single family homes.

Why is that?

So that's something I wanted to ask, like $1,500.

There's been.

There's been a handful of people that.

And you see it on ask, asking different things that, oh, I can't find an apartment.

Or they all want $1,500.

And even the ones above Hereford and hops, there's like 40 apartments up there and they want over $1,000 for.

It's the cost.

So insurance and taxes.

My insurance alone.

If you own an apartment building.

Keep jumping a little bit here.

But an apartment building, anything under four units is considered residential.

Just single family.

They call it single family.

In the insurance side of things.

If it's under four units, it's not as much of a risk.

The minute you go five units and up, you are in more of like a commercial multifamily insurance package.

I can run you $6,000 for a insurance policy per year.

Wow.

It jumps so drastically where I had an insurance.

Because now you're.

Now you're playing with the big boys.

Yeah.

I actually had an insurance agent tell me one time, well, with your five unit, if you just didn't rent the fourth unit, you would.

Your insurance would be cut in half.

I said, oh, so if I don't rent it and I just call it a broom closet, whatever I can fall into.

It was bizarre to me.

But you need a storage unit.

I actually am looking for a storage unit.

Yeah, yeah, I'll take it.

So that wasn't, you know, so running your costs is really important too, to make sure, you know, because your property taxes are going to increase.

I just had to walk away from a seven unit.

The numbers didn't make sense.

And I'm a numbers person and I ran the numbers which way you.

I tried trying to make it work.

And it was in the city of Gladstone.

So the problem was the minute this person who had owned it for 20 years, I think was uncapped, my.

My taxes for the year were going to be $15,000 on a 7 unit.

$15,000 For one apartment?

Yep.

Because not homesteaded apartment building.

No.

Yep.

The.

The value for which I was going to pay cut in half, essentially as a taxable value.

$15,000, It was going to be in taxes.

So even so, this person, it makes sense for them.

They're cash flowing like crazy that, you know, but they're ready to sell because they want to get out of it.

But their taxes are.

So I know a lot of people out there have no idea what you just said with things being capped and uncapped.

So can you explain that?

Because that's a huge deal and a.

Lot of people don't realize it's brand.

When you buy something, your taxes may go up, but your taxable value is only gonna go up with changes for the most part.

Exactly.

So this person, and no more than 5%, this person had bought this 7 plex for 100 grand or something 20 years ago.

Yeah.

And they had done improvements in all of this.

Well, their taxes were at $3,000.

Maybe they started at 2,500.

And over the 20 years, you know, whatever.

Well, what happens when a property changes hands?

It's completely uncapped and assessed.

So at that time, the assessor comes in, they say, oh, oh.

The public record is what you pay for.

An appraisal's not public record.

But the assessors have their ways and they will go, look, oh, well, this home sold right up to.

Okay, so your new assessed value is at this price instead of that 100,000.

It's at the 500 or whatever it would be.

And you're getting taxed on that.

So.

Yep.

And with real estate investments, none of this is homestead.

So for the existing owner, yeah, it makes perfect sense.

It works from great, but now you go from three to $15,000.

All of a sudden you're overhead.

That's fixed overhead.

You don't have a choice.

You gotta pay that every year, whether.

You have tenants or not.

So I looked at, okay, well, what if I Airbnb two of these?

Or what if I do this or that?

And I still.

I got to the end, I'm like, I'm still cash flowing like $90 a unit.

It just doesn't make sense.

No.

So running your numbers and not just jumping into things, there are a million Excel sheets Calculators, things like that, that this brrr book had a lot of different resources too.

Learn how to run numbers and like you said, the 2% rule, that's a great quick rule of thumb.

But read and learn.

I think, you know, one of my advices today for getting into the business is to get into it.

Just jump into it, do it doesn't hurt to do some research of course too, but absolutely.

But you got to start somewhere, you know what I mean?

Go to some of the auctions that they have at the courthouse, the foreclosure auctions, you know, go, go and you know, take some walkthroughs of some houses that you might be interested in.

Talk to some contractors that, you know and you know, start building that network.

Real estate investors love to talk about real estate.

Oh absolutely.

So find, find one and talk to them.

Yes.

Anytime anybody asks me, just in a day to day around a campfire, I have like word vomit where I can't, I can't talk enough about the business.

I can't get you to stop talking.

We love it.

And so that is a great resource right there.

Find somebody who is in the business and pick their brain and they will always be happy to help you.

Absolutely.

So, you know, you always hear about these landlords and you know, why is there such a negative stigma on that when you're providing, you know, inexpensive for the most part, you know what I mean?

But you're providing reliable housing.

And the fact of the matter is a lot of these people, they don't have the money to put down a down payment on a house or anything.

And it's like you're offering that.

Why is there negative stigma when it comes to that?

I hear that a lot.

Well, why wouldn't you just buy a house?

There's a million reasons why somebody wouldn't just buy a house.

Well, why would I pay $1,000 in rent when my mortgage, you know, could be 900 again?

There's a million reasons a lot of.

People and as a renter you have to be able to pay for it.

Otherwise the landlord's not gonna lease to you if they're not making anything.

So you know, I'm not going to.

Pay for you to live in my house.

Yeah.

And I do.

And evictions are expensive.

But yeah, I would say, you know, there's a lot of reasons why rent is expensive right now.

It probably stems back too to job shortages.

I can't get somebody to come change a faucet for less than $50 an hour.

So right There, you know what I mean?

So it stems down to the cost of everything.

And then a lot of us are.

You have these older landlords that are retiring.

They're selling off their portfolios.

So again, their $600 unit that was cash flowing for them, doesn't cash flow for us new investors because we have that mortgage, we paid that person X amount more for their unit.

You know, we took on that real estate.

Well, I have a mortgage on it.

I have a full mortgage.

I have uncapped taxes, I have new insurance.

And then a lot of the times I find where new real estate investors, we are not okay with how units are when we take them.

So I reinvest a lot.

I know I'm probably a little fancier than most landlords.

You're looking at the carpet.

Yeah.

Yes.

So I'm reinvesting.

I just thought yellow shower, like, oh, boy.

Yeah.

So a quality unit cost me $6,000 to flip.

You know, I bought the place to get somebody in there.

I'm in the red for quite a while at $1,000 a month on anything.

You know what I mean?

But that's okay.

It's a long game.

But.

Yeah, that's interesting.

So it's almost like you're willing, you're willing to lose money in the short term knowing that we're building equity, we're building wealth.

And these.

The mortgage is getting paid down.

Yeah.

And homes will appreciate.

And I was talking to someone the other day talking about real.

Well, well, the real estate market is, you know, kind of going down here or this or that.

And I was like, I was like, real estate has been a good investment for thousands of years.

I just read interest rates.

You know, interest rates slow down the ROI on an investment.

But it's still.

It is way less risky than the stock market.

Exactly.

You know, you will make more in the stock market.

You want to be in the, in the nasdaq, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

The highs are great, but the lows are low.

So I think it's good to be diverse.

For sure.

Absolutely.

Real estate is essentially, in my opinion, one of the safest investments.

It's the most hands on.

Yes, yes, sure.

But it is one of the safest investments.

I am going to pick your brain all weekend about getting into the.

I started a Vanguard account.

You did?

I put money in.

I haven't done anything with it.

I have no idea what I did.

I'll give you some.

Some good tickers to go off of that.

I think it's important to diversify for sure.

But real estate is the steadiest, you know, investment you can make.

Yeah, absolutely.

But it's one of those things that.

And this kind of maybe goes back to, you know, our discipline conversation, but having the discipline to know that it's going to take a minute.

And I remember you and talking about, hey, I got to hold onto this property for a year.

So that way I don't incur the short term capital gains.

So that's where the flipping came from, is I needed, I wanted more money to invest into real estate.

Yeah.

And to do that, I didn't want to work a full time job anymore.

So there was a couple factors that went in there.

It was a really small, slow game for me because I didn't have chunks of money to reinvest.

No real estate, your cash flow is gonna get eaten up with one plumbing call and then that's fine.

But I was, I was reinvesting in my company about $5,000 every other month I was having to put into my checking account at the real estate side of things.

So that's when I'm like, well, what if I sold a few houses?

What if I flipped a few?

And how would that look?

How could I do that?

Well, what I've been doing is trying to stay disciplined.

Maybe I bought one or two things, but with my flips, I'm trying to.

Everybody does with those flips.

I'm trying to take that money and I'm thr.

Throwing it back into real estate.

So I'm buying another duplex or I'm buying, you know, just trying to build up that rental portfolio.

Yeah, absolutely.

I thought so.

1031 Is a way to kick your.

Tax down the road.

Down the road you're gonna have to pay it no matter what.

But it's a way to just kind of kick it down the road.

And I don't know a whole lot about them.

I've done research and I know I've gotta get with another.

They call em like a holder or something like that.

But the government incentivizes us.

They do.

They want it because they want people buying and selling.

They want.

Because that's the economy.

That is the economy.

It's a good thing.

Yes.

Yeah.

So most of our flips take us three to six months, I'd say, just depending on what it is.

Because those are taxed as ordinary income.

That ordinary income, really, it is insane.

As opposed to a whole gang.

Yep.

Oh, it's terrible.

It's absolutely horrible.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

But if you held on just for another six.

But it's like, how do you put a renter in there?

Like, no, if it's a flip.

Flip we did.

So that is where I've got probably like three different avenues right now.

So I bought a few flip houses that I knew were gonna be great flips.

Number one, the crew was backed up.

So I'm like, okay, they can't handle another flip right now.

I'm gonna throw a renter in there.

I'm gonna sign a one year lease.

That renter's gonna not only pay down the mortgage, If I screen them good, we shouldn't have any issues.

And it'll be like in an inventory.

So now that's like an inventory item to me.

So these three homes that I am renting currently are on the flip company actually, but they're in inventory.

So as soon as that lease expires at that time we'll reassess.

Okay.

Was it a great tenant and they're treating the property fantastic.

Maybe we just leave them if they want to renew their lease or.

Okay, that tenant is moving, they're not renewing their lease.

Hey guys, we have an opening.

Yeah.

So it gives you more flexibility.

So it's about.

And once again planning for the future.

Looking at that longing.

Yeah, but I had no idea that would go in as ordinary income.

It does.

I didn't either.

Yeah, exactly.

So I was.

Massive tax bill at the end of the year and say, well, I thought we made money.

And so my rent rental company helps me greatly offsetting some of that, you know.

So it all.

I'm a sole prop LLC and so all of it flows through me anyways.

But the rental company always loses money again, legitimately.

I reinvest every penny.

I've heard this because I really don't do much with real estate at all.

And so this is very educational for me.

But from what I've heard is there's a lot of depreciation that you can work with with rentals.

And so that's where.

With rentals or with houses and everything.

So it's like.

That's one of the bonuses is like you're not.

You can show that you don't make a lot of money because there is a Lot of depreciation.

Yeah.

And the irs, I think, I don't know the rules, but if you had, let's just say a business and it lost money for four or five years, the IRS would classify you as a hobby or something.

I think that's with real estate.

That's not the case.

They, they understand that real estate investments are.

They do tend to lose money.

And that is.

They don't frown upon that.

It's a, you know, it's different.

It's not looked at it like a pressure washing company that lost business for three years.

So there's a lot of different tax things with that.

I was just.

We had two really great jobs, me and my husband.

And there's no way to write off your income.

There's really not.

So I've had a few people, you know, wow, okay.

How did you guys, you know, get this or get that?

And it was.

It's the rental companies.

That's legitimate.

We needed that for the rental company.

I needed that trailer, that dump trailer, because we're hauling 10 pounds, you know, 10 tons of garbage.

They're so versatile.

Yeah, they're so versatile.

Yeah.

But the company bought that.

That's not me, you know, the company.

My cell phone.

And it's a write off.

Yeah.

And you know, I pay less in taxes, plus I need it.

Yeah.

It's a win, win.

So keeping good books, being organized, all of that is crucial.

You can't just start writing off stuff and not have any, you know, but.

In that accounting, your accounting background, I think, I think is huge.

Right.

So everything that you've learned in the past has really helped you into this endeavor too.

I don't think it needs to be intimidating to normal.

Not normal people, but.

Yeah, just people in general.

I've always just said, keep a spreadsheet, keep a box of receipts, try to.

And again, find that core person that if you're making money doing what you're doing, you don't need.

That's not your core, that's not your 20%.

Well, and there's people.

And that's one thing that I've learned is I just read a book who not how, but it talked about that a lot of things in your life or in business, there is a person that is significantly smarter than you, better at you at doing that.

Leave it to that person.

Like me.

I don't know how to work on trucks.

Like little bits.

Right.

You know what I mean?

I can change lights and stuff, but you want me to do an engine rebuild or something?

Not gonna Happen.

But there's a person that can do that.

And to learn that skill for you is not as valuable as just hiring that one person.

Exactly.

And honestly, I know you love numbers.

I don't like them.

I really don't.

Not many people do.

It's a disease I like looking at, you know, I like.

I know I have to look at the statement.

So I do.

But other than that, I look at them.

Okay.

Yeah.

Let's get back to the fun stuff.

Right.

And people like you need people like me.

And people like me need people like you.

And that's, you know, my best friend.

He doesn't mind numbers, but I have always been his go to because he loves, he loves making money.

Yeah.

And you know, so we go back and forth with that.

Where I've always been his money girl.

That's what you.

The money lady.

Well.

And you're clearly very organized.

You got your stuff together, you know what, what needs to be where.

And still a mom of two kids.

Who's got just a billion things on.

Top of your portfolio.

It's like, okay, you're still a mom too.

And you got two kids.

I just, just wrapped up a T bone.

Not till.

Yeah, yeah.

So what I try to remember is I was doing all of this.

Not to the same, but I was doing all of this with a full time job and two kids and being disciplined.

Like you said, that's where that came from.

I've earned the right now to have a little bit more breathing room to not have that W2.

Getting rid of that W2 was groundbreaking.

And I loved my job.

I loved my job.

I loved the people I worked with.

But getting rid of that W2 was the next level for me.

That was where things got really serious though too.

Where, okay, Trish, you've never been good with discipline.

You kind of fly by the seat of your pants, spend money this and that.

You gotta really be disciplined now because we don't ever want to have to go back to a W2.

So what kind of foundation can we build that will secure this for us?

Absolutely.

And you probably did it on one of the hardest stages of life.

When you have little kids at home, husband, you got a lot of stuff going on.

It's like, hey, honey, I'm not gonna get a paycheck for a little while.

Just so you know, having a good partner, you know that better than anybody.

Having a good partner is.

That's just so supportive.

And that's right there for you kind of standing up.

I have an equal partner that it's never been.

If I had to work late or, you know, never.

We work off each other.

He was swing shift through, you know, everything too.

And so, yeah, having a good partner, that's gonna be key too.

And just powering through it just.

I don't know.

To me, at this age, I'm in the thick of it.

It's okay to work 70 hours a week if you're working for yourself.

Yeah.

And you love it.

You know, nobody's forcing me to do anything.

I absolutely love what I do.

And I can't wait to get to work or go look at that house or, you know, so for me, it's rewarding.

Absolutely.

You know, but that partner aspect, I think a lot of people don't appreciate that point as much as they should.

And, you know, I had.

I read a book the other day, and it talked about, I love to read like you now.

I've learned to love to read.

It was.

I didn't read before I was like, 25, you know, but after that, in my 30s.

What were you doing before 25?

Well, yeah, I was partying a lot.

All right.

I was not doing anything productive.

We were not picking up books before 25.

Nothing productive.

But it's one of those things where, like, that discipline and that reading is so important, and I think people should be doing that every single day to be able to learn and grow and progress.

But something I'm curious of, because I just saw on your Facebook page, you posted the other day about goals.

And you know what?

When I reach my goals, I'm already looking at the next goals and stuff.

So I have to ask, what's your vision for the next three to five years?

Yeah.

So I get asked that a lot, even by my husband.

He wants to know, where are you going?

Where are you going?

It's enough.

Enough.

And it's never.

No, no, it's not.

Because I'm never not happy.

I think people look at entrepreneurs and they think, maybe we're always searching for the next thing or we're not happy where we're currently at or something.

Like there's an emptiness or something.

There's not.

I wouldn't call it an emptiness.

I just.

I love to grow, to learn, to build.

I can't give you a There's no dollar point.

There's no number of units.

There's no.

I can't wait to start another business.

I'm looking at another business right now and running numbers on an actual brick and mortar business.

And does it scare me a little bit?

Because I've never had a brick and mortar business.

Yes.

But I love the.

Okay, what's next?

Yeah, I always have.

But that's scariness.

There is.

There is something about it.

Like, would you consider yourself an adrenaline junkie?

Like, yeah.

So you're.

I get bored very easily.

I'm on.

You hate to scare us, but you love it.

Yeah, absolutely.

You don't want to touch it.

Yeah.

But you're going to dive right in anyway.

It's like.

So for me, the best way I can describe, you know, a goal is I want to be.

I want to be like, truly wealthy.

Not money.

That's not money in a bank or something.

But to me, wealth is freedom.

And that is at any point in my time, I can stop everything and just be like, all right, let's go sit on a beach somewhere.

Maybe it'll come.

I doubt it.

I'll probably be 70 still doing it.

But the ability to do that, the fact that you can, that would be the goal.

And that's.

I don't have.

I have not obtained that.

That'll probably be a while.

So for me, that is the goal.

Sure.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's just to keep building, keep growing.

Yeah.

And the fact that you have that, you know, and I.

And just in our conversation that we've had, I've known you've had goals and you're a goal setter, but that's something that everybody should have.

And it's something that, you know, what.

Whether it's your New Year's resolutions.

But, you know, I look at, like, a lot of businesses look at the, you know, Fortune 500 companies, every single quarter, they have quarterly financial statements.

And what are they?

Those are your goals.

Those are those companies goals of where they're at.

Are they moving forward on their goals?

Are they moving backward on their goals?

And I think quarterly, we gotta be or more often be looking at our goals and analyzing where we're at.

Yeah.

And to me, just reassessing.

It's okay to not meet the goals, too.

I had a goal of flipping eight houses this year, and my contractor looked at me and he's like, no way.

Because we don't do quick flips.

They're all, yeah, yeah.

And I said, it's a goal.

If we don't meet it.

Okay.

But I'm always going to set a goal high.

Absolutely.

I don't want to crush the goal.

I want to stretch a little bit.

I don't want to crush the goal in the first quarter.

To me, I'd rather maybe not Meet the goal, but reassess why we did it and.

Okay, how can we do it next year or.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Well, I.

Okay, I have, like 30 more questions, and we are literally out of time, Trish.

So can I get you back here?

Yeah.

This is.

Get a commitment right now on the air.

So that way we were.

Cause I feel like there was so much we didn't.

I wanted to talk about female entrepreneurship.

I know.

And all these different things.

Exactly.

Well, I think just being here and telling your story and how you got to here and the fact that, I mean, I feel like you are.

You are just getting started, I think, to an extent.

I mean, you're just.

You're just building some momentum.

I think some people think, oh, you've done so much, but it's like in your mind, it's like, oh, no, you just wait.

You just wait and see what I got up my sleeve, because we got some good stuff.

It is.

It's.

It comes from a long line of just.

I hate being told I can't do something.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Maybe that comes from the adrenaline junkie in me too, or whatever.

But when somebody, you know, even getting my real estate license, it was because somebody told me, well, you can't do that anymore.

I said, oh, oh, oh, really?

Oh, really?

I'll take care of that.

Exactly.

Watch me.

Exactly.

See the license on the wall.

Tell me that now.

Tell me.

I can't.

Tell me.

I can't.

And you just.

And I think there's a lot that can be inspired with women.

And like I said, I want to dive into that a little bit more.

I think women belong in these spaces that we are told we don't belong in.

And I think, you know, whatever space the females in these businesses, because again, I came from the construction industry where I was told we didn't belong there.

You absolutely do.

We belong in any space we want to occupy.

And I think, yeah, absolutely.

But you just gotta.

Willing.

You gotta be willing to dive right in and do the hard work and.

Show up and do what you say you're gonna do.

Get some thick skin and just keep pushing forward, and you'll be fine.

You'll be successful.

And it pays off and it pays it.

Absolutely.

Like I said, look at me.

Being able to.

The latest goal, in my opinion, was quitting my W2 job.

And that was worth every ounce of energy I had to put into this thing.

Absolutely.

And now your success or failure falls on your shoulders and have the discipline to be able to make that happen.

So.

Well, thank you so much again, Trish.

I really appreciate having you on.

And I look forward to having you on again, Sam.