E{emum} | Four Questions That Beat ‘What Do You Want to Do When You Grow Up?’

Whether you're a 2.0 student or a 4.0 student, that data point has zero standing on your outcome.

It's like judging an eagle by how good it can swim.

What does the world need?

What are you good at?

What do you love?

And then what can you get paid for?

You never know who you're going to be rubbing shoulders with, what opportunities are going to present themselves.

Everything is built from is your social capital, right?

So it's the people you know, the people you surround yourself with, and data that you can pull from to make educated choices.

Just because you have a 2.0 doesn't mean you're a loser, doesn't mean you're not going to go anywhere.

It just means that traditional academics may be isn't for you, but there's other things that you are good at.

You just got to find out what those are.

If you're thinking about a career in.

The trades and you want to know what employers actually look for, what the work is really like, and what nobody tells you before you get started, you're in the right place.

Built in the Midwest features conversations that'll help you figure out if this path is for you.

Well, I'm super excited today to have the one, the only, Trent Bellinger joining us today.

Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Yeah, glad to be here.

So Trent is the Delta Schoolcraft ISD CTE director, is that correct?

Yep.

Okay, excellent.

So tell me about that on kind of what drew you to that CTE leadership?

Was it always something you were passionate about?

So career in technical education really wasn't afforded to me in high school.

It was available but wasn't really communicated.

So I just wanted to first tell everybody what CTE stands for.

Yes, but yeah.

So when I was in high school, my parents were non college graduates.

So the pathway to success was just college.

Right?

So my dad owned a welding company, very successful, but that wasn't what I was told to do, so.

But I had welding background, right?

So I went to community college.

Then my dad's like, well, hey, you're not going to own this shop.

We want something better for you, so go and do something else in college.

So I said, okay, well I know welding, so I can teach welding, right?

So went to community college, went to Central Michigan University, found a way.

I didn't even realize that career tech was a thing.

So what set me apart when I was in college from My peers was that I had that 4,000 hours of industry experience from working in my dad's company already.

Already.

So I was Alex.

So I was.

I'm a unicorn.

So.

Yeah.

And that's not to pat myself on the back, just like people like me don't exist.

But it's true.

Yeah.

I had a degree in industrial education and I had the CTE certification so I could go teach at a career tech center.

So anyway, so I went and I was a welding teacher.

I grew up downstate and never wanted to live downstate.

After growing up there as someone from.

Downstate as well, I was excited to.

Be in the up.

And once you get a taste of the up, you don't want to go anywhere else.

I flew to Alaska and checked out some schools in Alaska and thought I wanted to go to Alaska.

It turns out I don't like Alaska.

I don't want to live in Alaska.

And my wife wanted to live in Chicago.

So here we are.

So I taught welding here for eight years and then moved into administration.

I kind of always knew that that was where I wanted to go.

I like creating things.

We can talk.

We'll talk about this later, I'm sure.

But I found out what skills I had, what things I was good at, and then what career advancement that could get me into.

And my pathway was CT welding teacher, CT supervisor and then CT director.

But.

But to go from.

Go from all that experience in welding and you know, going back to that, I think it's really interesting because I was in a very similar boat, not with welding, but the college push.

And there wasn't a focus on cte, there wasn't a focus on the trades.

And just went to the conference Mark Perna at the Bay College the other day.

It's fantastic.

But anyway, something that he said is there's not always talking about college ready, but talking about career ready, getting people career ready.

And understand that there's a lot of different kind of paths to success.

And something you mentioned, I read in an article a while back where you had talked about that, that when you were growing up, CTE was never pushed.

Why do you think that is?

Why was there just such a very laser focus on one path and not on any of these other paths.

I think that the economy has shifted over time.

Then we needed to have a degree.

Like for my job, I have to have a degree or I have to be able to get an degree.

Sure.

Yep.

So that was seen as the path to success.

Like I said, my parents didn't go to college My mom was a secretary at Michigan State University.

My dad owned his business.

Mildly successful.

My mom was successful in her job, but they didn't think that their jobs were good enough for us.

I have multiple uncles who worked at GM and that was never even afforded an option for me.

Even though they had beautiful houses and all the toys, that was never going to be good enough.

So the path to success, to not having to have to ever worry about money was college.

It worked out well for me, worked out well for a lot of us.

But our paths were never straight to our final destiny.

No, I'm not even in my final destination.

No, exactly.

You're still on.

We're going different ways.

So I think that that was seen as a couple things.

I think it was for me, helped me grow up.

I was not ready to directly enter the workforce.

I worked for my dad.

I could have directly entered the workforce, but my life would have just been a little differently because I was not ready.

So.

So I think a lot of times college can be viewed or was viewed from our parents as a time to mature, a time to fill that toolbox that you didn't have filled, which CTE could have helped fill for me in my high school.

I just didn't, was never.

I knew it was there, didn't know what it was literally in my own high school.

But also too, I think that it just helps.

The idea of going to college was a way to fill toolboxes for people.

And now we realize that how those two boxes can be filled for everybody.

Looking for jobs can be done in a variety of ways.

Whether it's work based learning, whether it's career and technical education, whether it's programs like yours, sometimes people, it's college, sometimes it's a blend of all of that.

So how can we.

So I think we move from that's the only way to now.

There's a lot of different ways to success.

And you mentioned that Mark Perna too.

He did.

He had a really great, a lot of great points that I, that I heard.

But one of them was Whether you're a 2.0 student or a 4.0 student, that data point has zero standing on your outcome.

Yeah.

So it's not going to be, you're not going to be a failure for 2.0 and you're not going to be a Success for your 4.0.

It's what you have outside of that that's going to get you there.

So I thought that was just a really cool way to say, you know, tell those kids who are like, I'm not right for college, or, hey, I'm going to go do this is like, no, there's more to you than your grade point average.

Absolutely.

It's like judging an eagle by how good it can swim.

You know, it just.

It doesn't make sense.

And no, that.

That point with him really resonated with me because I've seen that firsthand, where people have a hard time reading and writing or maybe have really bad dyslexia, and they, you know, nearly failed high school, and yet now they're entrepreneurs, doing really well, owning their own trucks or doing whatever they're doing.

And it's like, yeah, just that alone, you know, that traditional academics.

Yeah.

Isn't a good scale for everybody across the board.

And I've seen different successes.

Mike Dombrowski talked about that.

He's like, I knew right away I wasn't for college.

I'm not the college guy.

My counselors told me that.

And he's like, I had to figure out a different path kind of thing.

And you look at what he's done and what he's built, it's just amazing that.

I think it's important to recognize that just because you have a 2.0 doesn't mean you're a loser.

It doesn't mean you're not going to go anywhere.

It just means that traditional academics maybe isn't for you, but there's other things that you are good at.

You just got to find out what those are.

Right.

And maybe it's not book work, per se.

And I think, too, that one of the things, you know, that everything.

Everything is built from is your social capital.

Right.

So it's the people, you know, the people you surround yourself with and the data that you can pull from to make educated choices.

Right.

So.

So a lot of people, if they come from a small community, they don't have a whole lot of people to draw references from to know what they can do once they get into a career field.

You know, I taught welding, and so we want to be.

I want to be a welder.

Okay, great.

What does that mean?

You know, they want to go weld.

But once you get into a facility, your paths, you know, really broaden.

But one thing that college, I think, was seen as is as a networking opportunity.

Sure.

You know, I don't communicate with anybody that I knew in college right now, but some of those connections helped me get my first job, you know, So I think that that's seen for as a.

That's how you're Gonna find people who are.

Who will get you where you want to go, you know?

But nowadays, I don't feel like an old man saying nowadays, but nowadays, people.

High school students, specifically people, are looking for them in high school.

Yep.

Like, they're coming to recruit them, to come work for them in high school.

So there's not that necessarily a need for that sense of networking to come.

Yeah.

And I feel like high school students nowadays, to an extent, that's just my opinion, but they're getting a lot more networking than I ever did.

I mean, I felt like I graduated high school and it was like, get out of here, we're done with you kind of thing.

Have a good life.

And nowadays I feel like.

I mean, I look at all the different career fairs that are in high school, high school.

I mean, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th grade, we were just at a career quest downstate.

It was all 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th graders.

And there was hundreds of different careers there that people talked about.

And I'm like, I don't ever remember anything like that in high school.

So they're getting that networking now and introducing themselves to people like they never have before.

And that's why I think industry, folks who engage with kids are getting the kids, and I think that industry is understanding that.

So locally, we do.

Let's start with the youngest and go up.

So we do fifth grade.

Fridays with fifth graders go to Bay College, and they just experience a bunch of different classes and courses.

So, for example, my daughter, she's in fifth grade, and she wanted to be a teacher.

My wife and I both started as teachers, and we're like, oh, God, don't be a teacher.

So we were looking for your parents,.

Pushing them to do something else.

Yeah, we're the same thing.

Pushing your kids to do something else.

Just as bad.

The irony there.

That's funny.

So I was like, oh, God.

But I can't tell her that.

So somebody else has to tell her that.

So she.

Anyway, so she went through this fifth grade Friday, went into the microbiology lab, and she's like, I want to do microbiology.

I was like, okay.

I don't know what that is.

Kind of like the Mark Perna exam, but it probably sounds better than teaching.

Not that teaching's bad.

It's just I want her to be the next level of better than us, which is what my parents wanted.

And I hear what that's gonna look like.

You want your kids to do well and thrive.

Absolutely.

So now she came back with, maybe I can teach biology as a guy.

So I haven't won yet.

So we do fifth grade Fridays and then we do.

For seventh graders, we do Mind Trekkers, which is a Michigan technical education, Michigan Tech opportunity.

I think you guys participated.

Yeah, that was awesome.

So that's where we.

So cool.

We bring in Michigan Tech.

We don't do it.

The Mind Trackers organization brings in all that and they do STEM based activities to try to help engage kids with what careers can then be related to those STEM activities.

Absolutely.

And it's all hands on stuff, like they're getting down and dirty and all these different things.

And young people love hands on stuff.

I think I just keeps them engaged.

And that's part of it is the Michigan Career Development model.

So there's a whole model of how to develop careers created by the Department of Education is kids can't be what they can't see.

And STEM is kind of one of those hidden things.

Like, okay, what's stem?

You know, so it's microbiology.

Well, what jobs can you get in microbiology?

You know, so it's all those things.

So what that Mind Trekkers does is it helps.

Every activity has jobs and careers that are tied to it.

So they can be like, well, what's that?

And then they can hopefully go and explore more of that.

Or the person who's running the.

Maybe a student at Michigan Tech who's a near peer can then explain, oh, this is what that job looks like because I'm studying it.

Or the person from a truck driving school can talk about what the job is that they're talking about right there.

So whoever's there.

So that's eighth to seventh grade.

And then for the high school students, we operate that ISD runs, helps run two career fairs.

One at Glaston High School for the kind of the eastern side of the districts.

And then we were in one at Escanaba for the western side.

It's amazing.

I think I, you know, we had a booth there and there had been over 100 people.

I mean, it was amazing.

All the different jobs and the different careers and, and what's cool about that is you hit a little bit of everything that was there was.

There was military there.

If they're interested in that.

There are different college programs there.

There was trade schools there, there was jobs right out of high school.

But something that you said that's pretty profound that I haven't heard before.

But kids can't be what they can't see, you know, and that's, I think that's huge.

Right.

And so I think you Know, by having those big events, it really opens up their eyes.

And that way they can explore these different careers.

Because I'll be honest with you, like talking about alignment, if you were to ask me when I was a senior in high school what alignment was, I would have been, what kind of.

Is that a foreign word?

Or, you know, I would have to Google that, right?

Because I didn't know what it was.

And so it was never even a thought in my mind that I could be alignment because it wasn't even a term that I understood.

A career that I understood.

And so I think that's fantastic.

So, okay, so what other events?

Yeah, so we do that.

And then so through cte, I have a picture, I think, something I want to talk about on my phone.

That's my phone.

So some other events we talk about.

So once we get into cte, we reach about.

Within the two counties, we have about a quarter of the students, high school students in CTE classes.

So we only offer eight CTE classes.

So what we tell students is, when you come to our class, maybe you'll take a, a combination of machining and welding.

Let's say, for example, maybe you won't be a machinist, maybe you won't be a welder.

But like in the case of Mike Dabrowski, he was a former student of mine, like, he's taking those machining schools and skills and those welding skills that he learned through cte and he's using them every day.

He welds all the time.

I know, I follow him on Facebook and stuff.

I think he just welds to welds, right.

So it's about filling those toolboxes of things that kids can do.

So through that, and then as we have local schools all do work based learning as well.

So that's one of the things that's nice.

We offer eight programs here in Delta county for cte.

But if there's a kid who, let's say he wants to do, you know, we tried to figure out how to do a lineman program.

We talked about an insurance program.

We've talked about culinary.

So are there other ways that we can do that?

A lot of schools do work based learning.

If there's not a CT program offered, let's say, for cosmetology, right.

So I know Gladstone had a student who did a work based learning program in cosmetology, had a registered apprenticeship through DOL to do that, you know, so there's opportunities for kids to.

Again, because those employers are seeing a value in those kids that untainted talent or potential talent.

Absolutely.

To invest in.

So there's all different types of paths that the kids can take, whether it's ct, whether it's college, whether it's apprenticeships, all kinds of things.

It's huge.

You know, and something, I don't know if you want me to say this, but something I've seen and you even let your students go out and take trade school programs and things kind of during high school because you recognize like, all right, they're already thinking about these careers, they want to get into these careers.

You know what, we can do this and make it happen.

Their, whatever their senior year of high school to be able to talk about a jumpstart, getting into it.

And even I've noticed even a lot more people, even dual enrolling.

I just met someone the other day that was dual enrolling at Bay College.

When they graduated high school, they also graduated bay with their associate's degree.

And I'm like, what?

Like talk about getting that.

I mean, that's like a, I mean I took like four years to get a two year degree, but that's like getting a four year jump on me.

Like, that's huge.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, that's a double edged sword.

That's where I was before this was at a Bay College meeting about dual enrollment.

Oh really?

Oh really.

So it's a double edged sword because yeah, those kids are leaving with all those skills, but they're kids, you know, so.

Which is great that they're ready to go, but like sometimes I just am concerned about what are we doing when we have a graduate, a senior that's graduating with 60 college credits and then they graduate the next level early.

I just want to make sure that their toolbox is full again or that their social capital is built, that they know what to do because they're still young.

Absolutely.

So we're asking these kids, as the boomers age, we're asking these young kids to fill those voids, but we're asking them to do a lot when they're young.

Absolutely.

And talking about the toolbox, something I just saw on Facebook the other day, but you guys built a house.

Built a house.

Like, you know, and I think about, I mean, I have a hard time cutting two by four, you know, because I never, I never went through a shop class or even a chainsaw class.

I mean, none of that.

I mean the skill sets that they're learning where these kids can literally come out and they can renovate their houses, they can build, build Homes talk about that project and what kind of what they're learning to be able to do something like that.

Yeah.

So the kids, or they built, they poured the footings and finished everything.

So when we do the house, the kids, they typically, they spend a little bit of time learning how to do the task, so how to finish concrete.

Then they'll go set up the forms for the footings and then pour it, and then they'll go back to the classroom and learn how to set, do cement block, and then go and do the crawl spacer.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So.

And everything up to that.

So when we did the house, we also.

Our teacher is a fantastic resource, but we also brought in some local professionals, so, like Master Electric, Hiawatha heating and cooling, St. John drywall, EJ&S concrete, C4 concrete.

They all came in and worked Right.

Directly with their kids to make sure that they did it right.

Yeah.

So, like, our kids hung the drywall, St. John Drywall, came in and helped us finish it.

The kids got to participate in that.

And actually learn from a contractor that's doing it every single day.

Understands everything.

Yep.

So it's nice to bring in those local experts again.

It's increasing the.

The kid's social capital.

But then those employers who are contractors are like, oh, I want that kid.

Okay.

So it's almost multi kind of factorial there with the benefits that they get out of this because they can utilize this.

So like, Mike Dombrowski, you know, he's welding every single day on his stuff.

I mean, he breaks a lot of stuff, and so he's gotta fix it and weld it.

He's not gonna mind me saying that.

And he does push his stuff right to the limits.

He really does.

But.

But, you know, and that helped him grow his own business and build his own business.

And then you have all these people that can do it kind of personally in these.

In these skill sets.

And so that's one thing.

That's one thing that people talk about now is like, people go through all of their high school, and they don't learn how to change a tire or build a house or weld or have any real skill sets.

And I think that's huge.

What you're teaching.

You're teaching them actual skill sets that they can use for their entire life, you know, And I think that's so.

That's so impactful.

And part of me is actually really jealous because I never.

I never got to do any of that.

So it's interesting, too, when we.

One of Our requirements for state approved CTE is we have to do what are called follow up calls.

So we call every graduate a year after they graduate just to see what they're doing.

I wish we could do it five years later because one year after high school, not everybody's figured it out yet, so.

But it's always amazing.

We have a really high rate of students who either directly into the workforce, directly go into a youth apprenticeship or on the job training or some type of post secondary education.

And we also, you know those, those kids who we actually had a kid break the algorithm this year because they only let us put in $30 an hour as the highest earning wage and they had a kid making 38 bucks an hour a year out of high school and he's a lineman not working at a top center.

But so it's really amazing that we get to see that data.

But like I said, I really like to see it five years later to see when they've grown up a little bit more.

Absolutely.

Where they found themselves and again, how that path wandered along the way because I'm guessing probably 90% of them didn't.

Go a straight shot.

I'm sure it's wandered.

I'd say the majority of people, if you're like me or you, it sounds like you know what, you kind of weave, but you always make forward progress.

Right.

And that's what I want to show you.

So I gotta get a picture up here so I can talk about it intelligently.

Yeah, but so there's this theory, this Japanese theory called Ike Guy.

And what it is, is it helps the Japanese tell their people how to find a vocation.

Right?

So it's this Venn diagram of different things.

So the first one is find out.

When you're looking to see what you need to do, find out what does the world need?

So what are some careers that the world that's growing?

So like Michigan does the Hot50, right?

So then we tell students, move over to number two, which is find out what you're good at.

So it says explore and develop rare and valuable skills that make the world better become so good that they can't ignore you, you know, so that's how can we communicate to kids that first of all, what does the world need?

So forget about what do you want to do?

Focus on what does the world need?

Then what are you good at?

And then three, what do you love?

Because we're told, like let's say I Don't know what your hobbies are, but let's say you like dirt biking.

I like to snowboard.

Okay, exactly.

So who's going to pay you to snowboard?

Maybe you're really good at it, but probably not.

Probably not.

So who's going to pay you to do that?

But what are those skills that you're good at that you love?

So let's figure out, what does the world need?

What are you good at?

What do you love?

And then what can you get paid for?

So let's.

So if we unpack, let's say snowboarding, right?

So you've got some agility, right.

Like being outside, you don't.

I love the outside.

You don't love the outside.

You don't mind being cold.

You have stability.

You probably have some good core strength.

Right.

So.

So those could be like, okay, I can be a good mechanic, manual labor person.

Yeah.

I always talk about, like hunting.

Right.

I could be a good lineman, I think.

Yeah, right, Exactly.

Look at that.

Like I said, it's not too late.

For me to change.

I'm still thinking we often get that.

Bad advice that, you know, find a vocation that you truly love in your life will be a permanent vacation.

Well, you know, like, I don't.

If I like hunting, no one's going to pay me to hunt because I'm not good at it.

No.

You know, but again, one of those things that I like doing, I like problem solving, I like know exploring, I like planning, I like all those things.

So really unpack that to understand.

And then what else is in that same kind of wheelhouse, per se, as far as those things that you like about that?

So like, and so then the last thing, the step is what can you get paid to do?

Right.

So take all those things.

What'll someone pay you for?

So when people ask me, like, how did I get.

Did I ever see myself when I was young being, you know, leading a school, and I would have said, no, that's crazy.

Why would I want to do that?

But what I did is I figured out what was I good at?

I was good at those things of planning.

I don't mind taking leadership.

I like creating a vision.

I like improving things.

So if I take all those things, that's what leaders have.

Those are the skills have.

And then where can that take me in my career?

So, you know when you take all.

Those things and that's literally what you're doing now, right?

Yep.

That's so interesting.

So which at the CT center, we take that theory of Ek guy to the kids to try to help them think outside the box, because what, you know, like I talked about my daughter, what does she see?

She sees teachers.

So.

And I think in your kindergarten picture, you know, when you do those cutie, cutesy pictures and what do you want to be?

She wanted to be a police officer, teacher.

So what do they see?

Right.

So.

But not what are those.

What skills those people have?

It's what do they see?

So they see doctors, they see nurses, they see teachers, they see cops.

You know, so of course, nobody sees the lineman.

No, they see the trucker, but they see the truck, but not the trucker.

They see the.

You know, so how can we then expose students to figuring out, first of all your list, and then we'll fill in the details of what that job might look like.

But again, too, I think that when we talk about, again, the big picture of why have we shifted from have to go to college culture to, you know, maybe college culture.

College is a great option.

Absolutely.

But it's really finding your path, finding what.

Filling what those skills need to be and knowing that it's always going to change because so many people are now into gig culture, where you might do this three days a week, you might do that two days a week, you might do this an hour, you might do this four hours a day, you know, So I think kids are seeing that gig culture and seeing like, you know, how can I again have the skills, you know, that what am I good at to do these different gigs are going to.

That make me whole.

And I think, you know, a lot of our local companies are doing the same thing.

You know, you guys started as truck driving then, you know, so I think that take that gig and just expand it bigger.

It's the same thing.

How are we finding to make ourselves whole in a community, in a.

In an economy where there's lots of those gigs that kids can have.

Absolutely.

And maybe.

And maybe that is something that they would really like and enjoy.

I mean, I know.

I know people, younger people that love the autonomy of being an Uber driver.

They can work when they want to, and they have a certain amount that they want to make every week they work until they get that amount and they're good and they have the flexibility of it.

And so those are opportunities that never existed to you and I growing up, because those were never available.

But so I got to ask you a favor.

Can you send that to me later on?

What is that called?

Ikigai.

Ikigai.

Ikigai.

Okay.

Okay.

I'd Love to check that out.

And we'll make sure to put a link to that as well, because that's the whole point, is being able to kind of, I mean, talk about digging deep.

That went deep there.

And to have students be able to take a look at that.

And then it makes you think a little differently about things that maybe you haven't thought about before.

And I think too, we've done a bad job communicating to our kids that their only pathway to success is to leave.

And sometimes that's fantastic.

You know, I left my community and I'm not going back.

So we need people to do that.

And we appreciate that.

We appreciate you here.

You bring a lot of value to escanada.

But I think that, you know, again, by going back to that, kids can't be what they can't see.

We, as a local community can stop telling our kids or tell our kids who have left, hey, look at these opportunities that we have.

You know, we have large employers here and we have lots of jobs that might be hidden.

So I think that if we, if we stop communicating that it sucks here, we'll stop exporting our kids and then we can show them, if we can, then stop communicating that it's bad here and communicate the positives and what careers there are.

I think that the kids will stay, people will come back.

You know, one of our great assets in the UP is invest up and they have a organization and a kind of a tool called Return North.

Yep.

I like.

So what that is, is they actually will go and try to recruit people who have grown up, up north who understand the lifestyle that we want or that people expect when they're here and say, hey, maybe you have a job in Georgia.

Here's the career opportunities that are available for you above the 45th parallel.

Maybe think about coming back.

That's awesome.

Opportunity to try to recruit those people who've left that think that there's nothing here.

Like, oh, really?

I can work as a software developer in Gladstone and have this opportunities for me and back where I grew up with maybe the values that I want or the lifestyle that I want that I can't get in the metropolitan area.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I remember talking to somebody here recently that said our greatest export is our youth.

But I think as rural communities, I feel like we're doing a lot better at that is holding our.

Giving our young people these different opportunities or those opportunities might be, hey, you know what, you gotta do an apprenticeship for a few years, you get your experience, and then you can come, come back kind of thing or, or travel on the road a little bit and come back, but being able to really foster our youth.

And, and you got two kids, right?

Two, yeah.

You know, so, so I have kids as well and it's, you know, something that, that scares the heck out of me because I see this on different, different friends and is, you know, my kids leaving and moving away for those opportunities, you know, that's, that's a, that's a fear.

Right.

And I don't, I don't want that.

Or maybe they move away to find themselves or whatnot or get some experience, but I'd love to have them close to home.

Right.

And I think that's important to not, you know, migrate our kids outside of our community.

Let's just not do an active job of knocking our own community.

And if they choose to leave, then that's fine.

We did our job to show them all the opportunities.

But when we actively promote them that their only opportunity is to leave, that's on us.

Yeah, we're hurting our own, we're hurting ourselves.

And what we're seeing, you know, through Invest up again, you see some of that population data.

Our population is growing above the age of 65.

Not that that's bad.

We love all people of all ages.

Absolutely.

But the amount of people we're going to be having to do jobs and to run the economy smaller.

So we've got to do something.

Although, you know, I talk in Schoolcraft county, some of those businesses, 100% rely on those 65 plus people because they'll come in at 4 o' clock in the morning and work for two hours, then go do pickleball or whatever.

So like we need those people too, but we need the full timers that are creating the base and then those people who are part time, retired, whatever it is, can come in and fill in the void.

We can't solely rely on them because they're going to age in, age out.

Absolutely.

You know, something you mentioned a little bit ago was the work based learning.

And I was talking to a group of students the other day and I said, okay, a show of hands, how many people have jobs?

Right.

Going into summertime there was only a handful of people.

Right.

And it was a different school.

And I said, why aren't you people working?

I was like, you know, they were all juniors and seniors.

They're going to summertime.

How important is that for a younger person, no matter what job it is, just to get some work experience.

Right.

I think it's incredibly invaluable.

We Have a student who, we have multiple students every year who go into work based learning, whether it's at osf, just doing clinical rotation.

I don't want to say just doing clinical rotations.

Doing clinical rotations.

I don't even know what that is.

So in our health occupations classes, the kids go and they rotate through emergency room, maybe different billing areas, ambulatory care, radiology or imaging.

They rotate through those different sectors of.

The healthcare side of things.

Yep.

So we do that both at OSF Hospital and the Schoolcraft Memorial Hospital.

So our students get to go in and see all those kinds of things.

So.

And whether they answer after those opportunities.

We also have, you know, kids in machine shops, we have kids in elementary schools, we have kids in high schools.

We have kids in, you know, out on building sites for all of our programs.

They all have work based learning opportunities.

Whether they leave that opportunity and say, you know, I want to do that for a living or I don't, that's okay, because they've at least narrowed things down.

But my fear is, is if they have a negative experience, they're going to shut that industry out of their mind.

So if they go into a shop and they get sworn at and yelled at and you know, they have higher expectations than being a student, they might be like, meh, I'm not going to do that.

So we just, we always need to make sure we communicate clearly to our industry partners to, you know, these are students, we're still selling them on the industry, yet they're still figuring it out.

So we can't expect to have 100% efficiency out of them.

No.

Even though they might be super proficient in our classes, they're still learning how to work at a job site.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And part of that, I think is exploring those different careers too, because I know there's a handful of different things.

Like I, I started at Burger King when I was 14 years old and I wasn't a big fan of it.

I didn't like it.

But I look at like the communication experience that I learned.

And perhaps working at Burger King was the best communication class I've ever taken because I had the headset on.

I was introducing myself every time, taking orders, and I would literally talk for eight hours.

Like literally the whole time.

Yes.

Me.

Yeah, Seriously.

Can you believe it?

Can you believe it?

And I was young, right.

But they're like, oh, yeah, this, this kid can talk.

You know, put the headset on him, he'll take orders.

Welcome to Burger King.

How can I help you?

You know what I mean, I said that a thousand times and taken orders.

And then that was the old style, before credit cards, if you can believe it.

So it's cash only.

And then you had to announce every order back to the back so they knew what was going on.

But it's one of those things that I tell people.

I was like, you know, and a lot of people get blown away by that.

Like, at Burger King was some of your best work experience.

I said, probably, you know, it's one of the.

And so embrace all the different jobs that you have.

And even if you hate a job or you really don't like it, the skills that you develop within that job because of that job might be worthwhile your entire life.

And so, you know, give it a.

Give it a fair shake.

Right.

I look back at mine, too.

You know, working with my dad, one of the things I learned was just how to deal with people, especially, like, people that are older than me.

So, you know, it's.

How do we.

How do you communicate?

How do you keep a conversation going with folks that are maybe older than you?

How do you make them feel comfortable?

You know, all those things are incredibly valuable.

You know, how do you deal with, you know, people who may not have the same values as you or the same work ethic as you and all those things?

So, like I said, whether it's whether they're working at a golf course in the summertime or whether they're working at a machine shop in town, those.

Those are all going to be super valuable.

Absolutely.

For their choices after high school.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just.

It's one of those things that I think a lot of people want to do what they absolutely love or like to do, and it's like, no, no.

Get in there and try new things.

Or you might find, like, you do something that you didn't realize.

I know.

I remember me working in high school at a maintenance shop, changing out tires, doing oil changes and stuff.

And I kind of like the autonomy of that, where you're kind of working at your own pace and you bring a truck in and you're doing all.

And you're learning about all those different things.

And, you know, I wouldn't want to do that now, but I still do it once in a while, you know, to help out.

But those are.

Those are huge things, and nobody can.

Take those skills from you.

No, no, exactly.

So you can always do that no matter where you are in the world.

Right.

So that's, you know, those are the kind of things we want kids to Leave with is those things that nobody can take from you.

That's awesome.

So one of the requirements, how the state works, right.

Is here's our goal, now you go do this.

So one of our requirements in CTE is we have to offer like 15% of our kids have to are supposed to receive a post equity credential.

So that could be a welding certification, it could be a ASE certification, could be a CNA certification.

So one of the things, again, we try to tell kids, you should try that one.

Because let's say we have 10 kids in the welding class go for their AWS certification and two of them get it.

Well, that's two that have more than everybody else in the class.

So sets yourself apart.

Nobody can take that from you.

It says that you've read, you've met a certain standard.

So one of the.

That's.

So we're trying to get kids to find a value in that credential because we still have those people who just say, you're just a high school kid.

Well, it's like, okay, I'm a high school kid, but I've got this, this and this.

Well, exactly.

So like in our IT class, I'm.

Not just a high school kid.

Exactly.

Right.

So we got, you know, kids who are in our IT class who have certiport credentials who say that they can do this.

Really?

This is my one area.

In high school.

In high school, they have certiport, they have A plus plus credentials.

Wow.

And then those can count.

In some colleges, those count for college credit.

So let's say that one is the credential.

You can get a job with that credential.

And then two, some of those credentials count for college or count as like a waiver for a college credit.

So some community colleges in the state, if you have that A plus plus, you go get college credit.

Waves.

So those are things like you said, your auto skills that you had from your job, your skills from Burger King, nobody can take those from you.

No, exactly.

And you've proved yourself to a standard.

If you can do a job.

Absolutely.

And talking about like ASC credentials and stuff, I mean, those are the credentials that every dealership looks for.

You have ASE credentials pretty much.

You can get hired any dealership for stuff like that.

I mean, that's students working at the local dealership in town here, Riverside.

And they.

We had to have ASC student credentials for them to start because you have to be a. I can't think of the proper word right now, but it's like a trainee level at the state.

Sure, it's.

So one of the directions we're moving into is from ASE to state level automotive service technician credentials, because the ASE doesn't.

ASC will get you the state test, but our student certification levels don't equate to like an employee level.

Oh, sure.

So we're just gonna go straight to that state level so the kids can have that.

And those are actual tests that they gotta take at the Secretary of State to be able to get those credentials and licenses.

It's nice.

But actually we can be a testing center right at our school.

So we can have a computer set up dedicated for that purpose.

And the kids don't have to leave our entity to get that.

They literally can do it.

Right.

And it costs $6.

So where the ASE test is 42.

So.

And we're covering all those costs so those kids can take those tests.

It's even a more valuable certification because it's through the.

It's through the state of Michigan.

Right.

So.

Which is huge.

Wow, those credentials are big.

And again, those things are transferable across industries.

You know, a CDL works for a person in the operators union.

It works for a person.

Electrical union works for California.

Exactly right.

So it works New York.

It doesn't matter.

Those are international credentials.

Absolutely.

And I think that's.

I think if there's one thing that Covid taught a lot of people is because I'll tell you what, the CDL program was full because all these people got laid off in different things.

Is that, you know what, having something to fall back on, guess what is kind of imperative in today's day and age?

That if you have some skill set, something that you can fall back on if something happens, it's huge.

Because what a lot of people realize is, you know, what's more important than liking your job?

Putting food on your table.

And I think I saw a lot of people recognize that during that.

So something I talked about in the last podcast that's important to me, and I know it's important to you, is volunteering and kind of service to the community.

And I think that's how we've got to know each other honestly.

But it's something that.

I'm a huge proponent of it.

And I try to Push people for it.

Why is it important to you?

And why should it be important to others?

You know, we have an aging population, and it is in the organizations that we're members of and that we volunteer of, even through our jobs, you know, we find that people are aging out and stopping to volunteer.

But what that does is that creates that sense of community and sense of purpose.

And then another thing, that when we engage youth, whether they're or anybody in the volunteer organization, give them a sense of purpose and they'll stay.

So if we could, you know, that's one of the reasons, you know, so I'm a ducks limited person, along with all the other things I volunteer in, but it gives me a sense of purpose.

I feel like I'm creating value for people.

I feel like I'm making society better through all the things that we do, too.

So when you're a youth and you're thinking about volunteering or what's keeping you here, if you can volunteer and feel part of something bigger than you, you're more likely to stay.

You're more likely to feel fulfilled.

And all those organizations who are doing great things in our community, whether it's pregnancy services, whether it's Dex Unlimited, whether it's, you know, Wells, Lions Club, they are screaming for people, and they offer an incredible amount of things that benefit society as a whole that they can't do without volunteers.

And in our small communities where everybody wears a thousand hats, you know, it'd be nice if we could pass some of those hats off to the younger people coming up.

And it was interesting at our.

It was awesome.

At our last Duck Summit banquet, we had a lot of younger folks that were members, which is good to see, because I was like, oh, gosh, all these guys are wanting to be off.

They don't see the younger people around here.

And those people who are aging have been doing it for 30 years.

And it was like, I just want to retire and go do my things and not be tied down to something, you know, but if you can find something that's bigger than you, that makes you fulfilled, that's not.

Doesn't necessarily pay you.

It makes you feel good, makes you want to stay in an area, makes you feel part of something.

You know, we both didn't grow up here, but I'm sure the both of us, wherever you go, for good or for bad, you see people that you know and that you see, you know, that's one of the reasons why we stay here, is my wife and I, my family stay here, is because we're known where we.

Where we go makes us feel good, people are willing to help us.

We're able to help other people.

And when you can make that positive impact in society, it just makes us feel like better people make.

Makes us feel included in something or part of something.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But that sense of community.

And I'm slowly learning that, like, if you want to have a great community, you got to support those community events, and you got to be a part of that community and integral.

A part of that community.

And I find, I think we have a much bigger influence on younger people to push them to volunteer and to help out.

And the other thing, and say someone.

Well, you know, everyone likes to ask a question.

What's in it for me?

Right.

And if I could give one standpoint where I would not be talking to Trent right now, if I haven't.

If I didn't volunteer for Ducks Unlimited.

Right.

Because we wouldn't have got to know each other.

Like.

Like we.

Like we have.

And so if there is maybe a selfish bone in someone's body, well, guess what.

You volunteer to help out someone else, you never know who you're going to be rubbing shoulders with, what opportunities are going to present themselves.

And I've known people that have gotten phenomenal job opportunities because of some of the service organizations they're a part of, and they're like, man, I don't.

I can't believe I wouldn't know what I would do with my life.

It wasn't for, you know, whether it's a Wells, Lions Club or Ducks or any of the other great organizations that are around.

But just.

And they're.

And like you said, they're all looking for people.

I got volunteered to coach D ball this year, and I'm like, I don't know much about, well, you'll be fine.

You know what I mean?

Because.

And it was like, okay, well, let's do it.

And, you know, granted, my kids were on the team, too, you know, but I wanted to be on the sidelines.

I wasn't given that opportunity, but I was like, let's dive right in.

Let's do it.

And I think it's important for everyone to know that you have the skill sets to be able to help out and volunteer.

And you never know what opportunities might present themselves just because of that.

Whenever we do anything, like going a field trip or anything with our kids, I always get on the bus and tell them, you never know who your next boss is going to be, so always pretend like the person you're Talking to is either going to know your boss or going to be your boss because that's exactly how you present yourself in that T ball field.

It might be a student's parent or a student's uncle and be like, oh, I know that guy from his.

And there's those connections.

So again, when you're talking about volunteering, if you have a limited social network, limited social capital, those volunteering opportunities help to grow that outside of the people that you know.

So that you know.

So that I know through my volunteering, all kinds of walks of life, you know, financial planners, plumbers, auto wrecking places, all kinds of different walks of life people.

And we've been able to all work off each other to help a greater goal, whether it be the purpose of the volunteer organization or just our own personal goals.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So that's one way, one of the great ways to keep societies and places to volunteer and feel part of something bigger than yourself.

Absolutely.

And there is a level of fulfillment there.

And if people haven't ever volunteered, maybe they don't know what that feels like.

But like I said, it's bigger than yourself.

It's a much bigger organization than yourself, a bigger cause than yourself.

And to be a part of it, to be a cog in that wheel, to be able to move that forward, I think is a huge deal.

Is a huge deal.

Well, one thing I like to ask, but you know, your mentors growing up or motivation growing up, was there one piece of advice or a lesson that you learned younger that really has helped you throughout the years?

I think two things.

So one, growing up with my dad, we went to lunch every day in the summertime with a group of his, like nine buddies.

They were all, you know, bankers, lawyers, all through the.

It was like the town godfather.

So I went to lunch with them.

I was the only kid.

So I think that I had a blast.

Every single time we went, you know, they were just all great group of guys.

We had blue collar guys, we had, you know, white collar guys, rich guys, poor guys.

So I just think it was, that was an awesome opportunity for me to engage with people from all walks of life, be able to create conversations with those people.

And they were a lot older, they.

Were all in their 60s or you know, there was people from their 40s to 65.

So just being able to talk to people.

Yep, 30, 40 years older than you and it's human.

So that's helped me feel more confident in my role.

I started in administration, younger in my role, younger in my life.

So like People typically are, you know, when I'm in the room with some people, they're like, you can't be the boss.

You're one of the younger.

You know.

So I think that that's helped me just communicate with more people.

You know, I look back and that was a lot of fun.

But I learned a lot through those opportunities.

And then the other one I always look back on, I made pallets for a company in town where I grew up that they made front ends for hot rods.

So I made these pallets, and I.

Then they put them on there and they shipped them away.

I remember one time I kept being late on getting pallets to the guy.

So the guy that I made them for, Stuart, one day, he said, you know, you're late again.

I need those pallets.

And I said, yeah, I didn't get them done.

I had football.

I had this.

He's like, I don't need an excuse.

I need the pallets.

So I was like, so that kind of defined my life from there is like, you know, I can't provide excuses like, okay, so we're just going to do it.

So one of my probably annoying.

I don't need excuses.

I need the pallets.

Exactly.

Right.

So one of the things that, like, I have it on the.

In my office.

Just don't let it happen.

Make it happen.

You know, it's the same type of thing, right?

It's like, if I don't care why it's not happening, make it happen.

If it's somebody else's job, fine, do it for them.

So it's just easier to sometimes just do the work than to wait for somebody else to do it.

It's kind of what, where I live.

So.

Yeah.

So working with those different people and then getting told, I don't care why I care, that this didn't happen has been life changing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Wow.

I think that's great advice.

It reminds me of one of my good buddies, Kent, always says.

He says, make it a great day.

You know, don't have a great.

Make it a great day.

You know, you have the autonomy to decide how your day is going to be, and I always love that.

All right, one last question.

What legacy do you want to leave in this community?

That was kind of a deep question.

What legacy?

You know, that's tough, I guess, just making things better than I found it.

You know, I hope that, you know, whenever I leave this role or whatever, whenever I retire, that I can say, yep, that was.

That's better now, you know, you know, and I hope that through I can hope I can continue to do volunteering and just, you know, see that, you know, the world that the program, that he saw things more than himself and just made the world a better place wherever I am.

No, I love that.

And I will tell you, I know your name gets tossed around all the time in a great way from a lot of people I talk to in the trades and different things.

And there's no doubt you are making this world a much better place, but making this community a much better place within it.

So thanks again for being on the podcast today.

Really appreciate it.

Trent, thank you.

It's been a pleasure.

Yeah, thanks, Josh.